Driver's car???
cadillac ats forums cadillac ats forums
CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21
Cadillac ATS General Discussion Forum Discussion, Driver's car??? in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; I think some of you might be as amused by this as I was. Like many I considered a C ...
  1. #1
    Hoosier Daddy's Avatar
    Hoosier Daddy is offline Moderator
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS Performance 2.0T M6
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Winchestertonfieldville, AZ
    Age
    65
    Posts
    3,699

    Driver's car???

    I think some of you might be as amused by this as I was.

    Like many I considered a C Class or 328. I ruled out the C Class on looks alone. I'm not shallow, but if I can have looks as well as performance, why compromise? Mind you I'm NOT questioning the taste of anyone who likes the looks of the C Class any more than I would question anyone who prefers reds to greens or blonds to brunettes, etc.. They just aren't my cup of tea.

    Anyway, I set out to drive a 328 manual to compare to the ATS 2.0 with manual transmission.

    All the Cadillac dealers in the greater Phoenix area have ATS turbos with manual transmissions.

    NONE of the BMW dealers in the entire state have a 328 with manual transmission.

    Is that because they sell out the instant they arrive? No, all dealers told me they NEVER order manual transmission cars for inventory! If that's common (and I don't have reason to think otherwise since every other car in Scottsdale is a BMW or Merc), the ATS has a huge advantage with manual transmission shoppers because I sure wouldn't buy a car I couldn't test drive.

    Interestingly, I was pretty sure I wouldn't want an IS but stopped at one Lexus dealer and found the same policy: no manual transmission cars ever ordered for inventory.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    CadillacForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    pragmatic is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): None
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Age
    54
    Posts
    51

    Re: Driver's car???

    Looking on Cars.com there are 7 manual transmission 2013 328's withing 250 miles of me and 27 ATS manuals in the same radius (250 mile from NYC). Not a huge selection but enough.

    When I wanted to even see a Lincoln LS with a manual the last time I was buying a car (2001) I was out of luck. I finally found a used 2000 in 2003, test drove it (after not liking the interior of the 2003 CTS) and bought it.

  4. #3
    gohawks63's Avatar
    gohawks63 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2012 Black Diamond CTS-V Coupe, 2011 BMW X5 Premium
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Age
    51
    Posts
    2,774
    The issue is that despite what we may think, the vast majority of the buying public is not interested in a manual and if you are buying a manual transmission car, you will take a hit on it when you trade it in as there is a limited market for it, especially for a sedan.

    It's a bit different for cars like Mustang Shelby Cobras that are only offered as manuals, but even among that class of sports cars you would be surprised how many people still opt for automatics.

    Driving a manual has become a lost skill.

  5. #4
    bdwalters is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS 2.0T Premium
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    151

    Re: Driver's car???

    The manual transmission is going the way of the Dodo, which makes me sad. In another 10 years, cars will all be either CVT or fully electric (and probably largely self driving as well). It used to be that manual tranmissions were cheaper, more reliable, got better mileage, and made the car faster. For the most part, none of those advantages hold true any longer. Even worse, companies aren't putting much R&D into manual transmissions any longer, so they aren't as good as they used to be (or at least as they otherwise would be.) The only real reason to buy a stick now is because you think it is more fun to drive. For many, that is reason enough. But not for very many.

  6. #5
    marktanner is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS Premium 2.0T 6M Black Raven/Caramel
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    769

    Re: Driver's car???

    Another issue is that many times someone wants a manual, but since the dealers rarely stock any (because "nobody wants one"), the shopper eventually caves and buys the automatic. I know a number of people that were unable to find manual, so did indeed purchase automatics instead. I have been pleased that the local dealers have been stocking some, though only base and a few Luxury, and no Performance or Premiums. I drove a black/caramel Luxury that I would have bought if it was a Performance or Premium, but as I really wanted the HID lights, sport seats, and MRC, I ordered a Premium instead. I would never have even ordered one if I couldn't try it first, as other posters have stated. The dealer that I ordered from at one time had five manuals in stock, and are now down to one. In the past, they would never stock ANY manuals, including a CTS-V2, so progress is really being made.

  7. #6
    gohawks63's Avatar
    gohawks63 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2012 Black Diamond CTS-V Coupe, 2011 BMW X5 Premium
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Age
    51
    Posts
    2,774
    Reading about the Lexus IS in the latest car and driver and there was the following excerpt:

    "and after selling basically zero is250s with manual transmissions, the DIY shifting option is out".

    You can't blame the automakers for not offering manuals if people don't buy them.

  8. #7
    gfxbt is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS 2.0T MT
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Age
    27
    Posts
    131

    Re: Driver's car???

    Yes - It is truly that bleak for manual transmission. In SE Michigan, the BMW dealer I went to didn't have any MT 128s, 135, 328s, or 335s. Granted this was only one dealer, and I didn't look around because I already knew I wanted an ATS and not a BMW. I actually look at the car locator on the Cadillac website every few days just to see what is in inventory re: MT cars. The dealer in Rochester, as of yesterday, had 4 MT cars which seemed like a lot to me. I know they initially got two (a black and a silver - mine being one of them). They sold them in about a week, so must have decided to order more. Quite promising. I've also seen the phenomenon that most MT cars I see (at least through the Cadillac website in MI) seem to be lower trim levels.

    As for MTs in general, I worked for a couple of summers in college on the line building G6s. MTs only lasted one year on that car, and I know why - We built roughly 450 a day on day shift, and in 3 months, I only saw 2 MT cars (and yes I looked at all of the manifests for the RPO "MU9," as you can likely tell at this point that this is something that really intrigues me). So if you assume there were also two on night shift I didn't see, that is 4 cars out of roughly 54,000 (i.e., 0.007%). Although the G6 isn't the sports car the ATS is (although it did have a 3.9L 6), I think it is a good indicator of the MT market (i.e., it is virtually non-existent).

    As bdwalters points out, we will likely all be driving cars with CVTs or all electric in the near future - so enjoy your MT car now . . .

  9. #8
    thebigjimsho's Avatar
    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): ZIP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    In the barrel of a gun...
    Posts
    49,400
    Quote Originally Posted by gohawks63 View Post
    The issue is that despite what we may think, the vast majority of the buying public is not interested in a manual and if you are buying a manual transmission car, you will take a hit on it when you trade it in as there is a limited market for it, especially for a sedan.

    It's a bit different for cars like Mustang Shelby Cobras that are only offered as manuals, but even among that class of sports cars you would be surprised how many people still opt for automatics.

    Driving a manual has become a lost skill.
    Take a hit on an MT car? Not so. This thread shows there is a demand by a type. A manual V2 will command a small premium over an auto because there are not many out there. If someone, like me, is manual only, they'll pay more than an auto to get it. Period.

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by gfxbt View Post
    Yes - It is truly that bleak for manual transmission. In SE Michigan, the BMW dealer I went to didn't have any MT 128s, 135, 328s, or 335s. Granted this was only one dealer, and I didn't look around because I already knew I wanted an ATS and not a BMW. I actually look at the car locator on the Cadillac website every few days just to see what is in inventory re: MT cars. The dealer in Rochester, as of yesterday, had 4 MT cars which seemed like a lot to me. I know they initially got two (a black and a silver - mine being one of them). They sold them in about a week, so must have decided to order more. Quite promising. I've also seen the phenomenon that most MT cars I see (at least through the Cadillac website in MI) seem to be lower trim levels.

    As for MTs in general, I worked for a couple of summers in college on the line building G6s. MTs only lasted one year on that car, and I know why - We built roughly 450 a day on day shift, and in 3 months, I only saw 2 MT cars (and yes I looked at all of the manifests for the RPO "MU9," as you can likely tell at this point that this is something that really intrigues me). So if you assume there were also two on night shift I didn't see, that is 4 cars out of roughly 54,000 (i.e., 0.007%). Although the G6 isn't the sports car the ATS is (although it did have a 3.9L 6), I think it is a good indicator of the MT market (i.e., it is virtually non-existent).

    As bdwalters points out, we will likely all be driving cars with CVTs or all electric in the near future - so enjoy your MT car now . . .
    BMW wanted to make the M5 SMG only. The American public demanded otherwise. And you can still get BMWs if you spec it out.

    Cadillac has made it a point to offer manuals on their drivers cars. V1 was manual only.

    I only have driven manuals in my life(minus the autos in my work Town Cars). I have friends(female included) that drive manuals. They may go away in many models. But they'll never die completely.

  10. #9
    gohawks63's Avatar
    gohawks63 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2012 Black Diamond CTS-V Coupe, 2011 BMW X5 Premium
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Age
    51
    Posts
    2,774
    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho

    Take a hit on an MT car? Not so. This thread shows there is a demand by a type. A manual V2 will command a small premium over an auto because there are not many out there. If someone, like me, is manual only, they'll pay more than an auto to get it. Period.

    ----------


    .
    Of course there will be a demand for a manual for certain cars like the V, and the initial interest in the performance aspects of the ATS is driving a interest in a manual for that car but I predict that will trail off just like it did with the CTS.

    I could be wrong, but we'll see.

  11. #10
    thebigjimsho's Avatar
    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
    Automobile(s): ZIP
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    In the barrel of a gun...
    Posts
    49,400
    A driver's car with a manual will always have suitors.

  12. #11
    Pete7874 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): '02 BMW 530i; '08 MB C300 4Matic
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    42

    Re: Driver's car???

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoosier Daddy View Post
    NONE of the BMW dealers in the entire state have a 328 with manual transmission.

    Is that because they sell out the instant they arrive? No, all dealers told me they NEVER order manual transmission cars for inventory!
    In my experience, most of the people who buy BMWs with manual trans are true die hard fans that know what they want and are very peculiar and will hence just have a car special ordered for them with the exact set of options and colors that they like. And yes, there are fewer and fewer of them every year, it seems. Majority of the people buying BMWs these days don't really much care about the whole "ultimate driving machine" thing and are happy with a slushbox.

    I remember when I was looking at new 3-series back in 2001. Same story - I wanted to test drive a stick car, but none of the local dealers had any on hand. I ended up with an Audi A4 at the time since they had plenty of manual-equipped cars on the lot. I still ended up special ordering mine, but at least after a few test drives I knew exactly what I'd be in for.

    With that said, I've read from a number of sources that the latest 3-series isn't as driver-engaging as the older ones. That is why I am starting to look at ATS.

    As for the C-Class... I guess it is very subjective. My wife drives one and it's an OK car. It's automatic though. It handles very well - actually better than my old 5-series, and if that C300 had a manual trans, it would have actually been a fun car. Alas, MB no longer offers the C-Class with a manual trans in the US anymore.

  13. #12
    marktanner is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS Premium 2.0T 6M Black Raven/Caramel
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    769

    Re: Driver's car???

    Apparently, a stick is becoming an anti-theft feature. As fewer people can drive sticks, that means fewer criminals can, too. A friend told me that a friend of his was recently car-jacked in his Corvette Z06. As the thieves got in they asked what the third pedal was for! He answered "it's a clutch, dickwad!" When they realized that they couldn't drive the car, they fled!

  14. #13
    ryannel2003's Avatar
    ryannel2003 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2001 Honda Accord EX V6. Previous: 2004 Deville, 2000 STS
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    New Bern, NC
    Age
    24
    Posts
    3,718

    Re: Driver's car???

    As the owner of an E46 BMW 323i, I immediately felt that the ATS was very close to how the E46 performs. Comfortable on the highway and fun in the twisties. My test drive of an ATS was of a 2.5 and a 2.0T, and the 2.0T was definitely the car to get. My local dealership hasn't stocked any manuals at all so I haven't been able to test drive one and since my 323 is an automatic it was easier for me to compare. I also test drove the F30 328 and it had better power delivery than the 2.0T ATS and I actually prefer the styling (though the ATS is an attractive car) but at the end of the day the ATS is the better drivers car. Less understeer, firmer ride, more precise steering and better rebound control. My gripes with ATS centered around CUE which is quite clumsy, but overall between the two it would be a tough decision as I also like the 328's smooth ride, effortless power and classy styling.

    Drive both to compare, but I think you would be happier with the ATS.

  15. #14
    rustybear3's Avatar
    rustybear3 is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS White Pearl Turbo
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Age
    63
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Driver's car???

    True manual drivers ( at least in my time) opted also for standard brakes and steering....not power steering and brakes; whats the point? Yet how many cars do you know of that have this combination? It's truly is becoming a small segment of drivers who prefer stick; thank goodness car companies still offer it......but....

  16. #15
    marktanner is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2013 ATS Premium 2.0T 6M Black Raven/Caramel
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    769

    Re: Driver's car???

    As far as the steering and brakes, with today's car weights, huge, wide, low profile tires, quick steering, and 4 wheel disc brakes, an unassisted car would be virtually impossible to steer or stop, as the efforts would just be too high. The last unassisted car was probably the original 1.6 liter Lotus Elise, which weighed about 1600 lb, and only 45% of that over the front wheels. It looks like we'll never see cars like that again, I'm afraid. That has nothing to do with the transmission, however.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting