ATS Diesel and ATS-V confirmed for 2013, sportwagen to follow.

**blue_skies** · 11-06-12 03:40 AM

European press just confirmed ATS Diesel and ATS-V to arrive in 2013 as 2014 models. An ATS sportwagen is confirmed, but not for 2013.

Diesel engine sizes are unclear. European press is certain that it will be the Opel 2.0L CDTI engine, good for 195Hp and 295lb-ft of torque, whereas the American press is certain that it will be the Chevy Colorado 2.8L BiTurbo, good for 180Hp and 346lb-ft of torque.

In Opel trim, the 2.0L CDTI engine is good for 48mpg highway, whereas the Chevy engine would make the ATS Diesel a bit faster, perhaps as fast as the V6? As a reference, the 2012 BMW 335d gets 36mpg highway and 265Hp.

Fwiw, the majority of the Euro midsize luxury sedans (Audi A4, BMW 3, Mercedes C) come in diesel trim. It is an important trim for European markets.

Could Cadillac be thinking of launching two Diesels, for different (EU & US) markets? What about Asia?

European press also confirms the 2013 launch for the ATS-V, but states only 400Hp. (Both M3 and C63 have 450Hp). That would fall in line with the rumored LF3 3.0L BiTurbo V6 engine.

On a side note, there is also the 2.8L BiTurbo V6 gas engine, good for 321Hp. I wonder if that'll find its way to the ATS too.

**Fraggy** · 11-06-12 09:51 AM

The V better do more than 400hp as the F80s rumored 420hp/395tq is certainly underrated as is typical of BMW. Either way, a V will be awesome!

**boycer11** · 11-06-12 09:57 AM

Yep V better have at least 420, hopefully 450 or I wont buy it. I would think they would want it to have at least 100 more hp to make it worth it.

**SierraM** · 11-06-12 11:20 AM

Since BMW underrates their engines, 450 or higher should be their target if they want to win the hp war.

**hood101010** · 11-06-12 12:13 PM

That V info is extremely suspect. Why would Cadillac, pushing "The Standard of the World" put out a V that is under the hp ratings of the last generation M3- 400hp, C63 - 451hp, and IS-F - 416hp , let alone what the next generation is going to produce. They would be laughed out of the market. The ATS-V will likely be between 440- 465 hp and I'm guessing they will stay with a supercharger set-up to stay inline with the CTS-V. They have proven they can build a world class high performance sedan with a supercharger, I see no reason why they would move to turbo's. Strictly my opinion. We'll all have to wait and see.

**blue_skies** · 11-06-12 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by hood101010

That V info is extremely suspect. Why would Cadillac, pushing "The Standard of the World" put out a V that is under the hp ratings of the last generation M3- 400hp, C63 - 451hp, and IS-F - 416hp , let alone what the next generation is going to produce. They would be laughed out of the market. The ATS-V will likely be between 440- 465 hp and I'm guessing they will stay with a supercharger set-up to stay inline with the CTS-V. They have proven they can build a world class high performance sedan with a supercharger, I see no reason why they would move to turbo's. Strictly my opinion. We'll all have to wait and see.

Let's see, a 14Mpg (16avg) M3 or a 18Mpg (20avg) ATS-V could make a difference.
Not only in consumption, but in (overseas) purchase tax.

414hp M3 versus 400hp ATS-V seems matched, question is about gearing and transmission.

The M3 Coupe weighs in at 3,700lbs - and an ATS-V coupe with the turbo engine could weigh significantly less?

The C63 drops mileage to 13Mpg (15avg) but ups the curb weight to 3,900 lbs, hence it needs the 460hp to even performance out.

If the ATS-V, in coupe trim, really can drop the estimated 250lbs to stay around the 3,500lbs mark, it should compare favorably, in price and performance - and hopefully looks.

If you put the 450hp V8 into the ATS-V, the weight will be significantly higher - both engine and drive train components will make the car heavier than the M3, given up its hp increase.

**RXUYDC** · 11-06-12 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by hood101010

That V info is extremely suspect. Why would Cadillac, pushing "The Standard of the World" put out a V that is under the hp ratings of the last generation M3- 400hp, C63 - 451hp, and IS-F - 416hp , let alone what the next generation is going to produce. They would be laughed out of the market. The ATS-V will likely be between 440- 465 hp and I'm guessing they will stay with a supercharger set-up to stay inline with the CTS-V. They have proven they can build a world class high performance sedan with a supercharger, I see no reason why they would move to turbo's. Strictly my opinion. We'll all have to wait and see.

It would be great if they brought the Opel diesel over here. I drove a Vauxhall with the less powerful version of that engine for a month in the UK and it was really nice. The torque made it feel really powerful, and we achieved pretty close to the stated 48mpg, but that was an Imperial gallon, which is 20% more. I believe the 195/295 version of that engine is also a biturbo.

Still, with all these versions, engines, trim levels, interior colors, you have to think something has to give. Generally there is less choice, not more, as a model matures. Or Cadillac has figured out how to produce low volume very efficiently.

**M5eater** · 11-06-12 02:35 PM

If you put the 450hp V8 into the ATS-V, the weight will be significantly higher - both engine and drive train components will make the car heavier than the M3, given up its hp increase.

an all-aluminum Cam in block V8 is acutally very light. The LSA and LS3/LT1 are lighter than the the S63TU, the 5.5 Biturbo and the 4.2L FSI.

**JimmyH** · 11-08-12 11:13 PM

diesel

**thebigjimsho** · 11-09-12 08:20 AM

diesel. :yesyes:

**wrcknkrw** · 11-09-12 12:40 PM

Jimmy why the looking down on a diesel?

**Dr. Design** · 11-09-12 12:43 PM

The diesel option might be the best one of them all once it's all said and done. However it would remain to be seen whether the US market will get the diesel engine. We have seen this before.

As for the speculation regarding the ATS-V. Dont worry, it will have more than 450HP.

Thanks,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

**Cisitalia** · 11-09-12 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by blue_skies

414hp M3 versus 400hp ATS-V seems matched, question is about gearing and transmission.
The M3 Coupe weighs in at 3,700lbs - and an ATS-V coupe with the turbo engine could weigh significantly less?

The ATS-V should not be targeting the existing BMW E90/92 M3, but the upcoming F80 M3/F82 M4. They will be significantly lighter in weight and targeted hp is 450. The engine will be an inline 6 with either bi-turbo or tri-turbo. So the ATS-V will need +450 hp and 3400-3500 lbs or even lighter to compete.

**JimmyH** · 11-09-12 05:58 PM

Originally Posted by wrcknkrw

Jimmy why the looking down on a diesel?

go look up the performance of a 335i vs a 335d. the 335d has twice the torque, yet is abysmally slower.

everyone thinks diesel is the performance engine of the future, yet so far, no one has been able to produce any facts to support this preposterous theory.

if you want a workhorse pickup truck, diesel is indeed the engine that should power it. if you want a performance car, stay as far away from diesel as possible.

----------

Originally Posted by Cisitalia

The ATS-V should not be targeting the existing BMW E90/92 M3, but the upcoming F80 M3/F82 M4. They will be significantly lighter in weight and targeted hp is 450. The engine will be an inline 6 with either bi-turbo or tri-turbo. So the ATS-V will need +450 hp and 3400-3500 lbs or even lighter to compete.

agreed. this is what i have been saying. the ats-v needs to be just as light as the current ats. and i profess it can be if they use more highstrength steel aluminum and carbon fiber.

**RXUYDC** · 11-09-12 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by JimmyH

go look up the performance of a 335i vs a 335d. the 335d has twice the torque, yet is abysmally slower.

everyone thinks diesel is the performance engine of the future, yet so far, no one has been able to produce any facts to support this preposterous theory.

if you want a workhorse pickup truck, diesel is indeed the engine that should power it. if you want a performance car, stay as far away from diesel as possible.

I think it depends on what we mean by "performance car". Ferrari, yes, Cadillac, not so much. The power and torque figures are one thing on paper, but what that means in real life, for the way a typical person uses a vehicle for 90% of the time makes diesel very appealing in my view. Apparently my car can go 0-60 in just over 5 secs, but I never get the chance to do that! Far more important is how it goes from 30 - 60 (and then 40 -10 - 20 - 50). Diesel works well for that. Personally I would buy a diesel in a heartbeat, particularly after driving them in Europe quite a bit. It is a much more attractive option than hybrids and until Tesla get's real volume going.

Still, I remember reading that diesel will only ever be a niche market in the US because of refining capacity.