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Cadillac ATS General Discussion Forum Discussion, ATS vs. BMW 328i in Cadillac ATS Discussion Forums; Originally Posted by EmDeeAr If this car takes 4th to get to 60, I will not purchase it. at least ...
  1. #16
    M5eater's Avatar
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    Re: ATS vs. BMW 328i

    Quote Originally Posted by EmDeeAr View Post
    If this car takes 4th to get to 60, I will not purchase it.
    at least not the manual.

  2. #17
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: ATS vs. BMW 328i

    Quote Originally Posted by M5eater View Post
    I've no idea, all I do know is as mentioned, this isn't the first time I've heard a car rag say this tranmission is total shit. I would (hope) that they ment to say 3rd, but that's sort of like saying ' sorry, I didn't mean to call you an idiot, I just meant you're not as smart as I am. '

    1-2 shift should put you into 60 on any sports car. Period.
    Based on what I found at media.gm.com:

    This is based on the Tremec M3L TR3160 transmission, 255/35R18 rear tires, 3.27:1 final drive, and a 7000 RPM redline:

    1st....4.12:1...38.6 mph
    2nd...2.61:1....60.8 mph
    3rd...1.81:1....88.0 mph
    4th...1.30:1....122.6 mph
    5th...1.00:1....159.4 mph
    6th....0.80:1...199.2 mph

    Now mind you, this is strictly theoretical, mathematical limits at the 7000 rpm redline. I suspect first-fourth will probably go a little higher, as the rev limiter is probably 100-200 rpm above redline. And certainly sixth, probably fifth top speeds will be limited by power, not engine speed. I'd be surprised to see the 2.0T even hit 150. I bet it tops out around 140ish.

    but as you can see, it will easily hit 60 in 2nd gear. Whoever said 4th is required for 60 mph was smoking crack.
    My 190 hp, 1997 Maxima hit 60 in 2nd gear.
    Ludacrisvp and Ludacrisvp like this.

  3. #18
    EmDeeAr is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ATS vs. BMW 328i

    Great into right there.

    Can anyone confirm this? Always good to have a second source.

  4. #19
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: ATS vs. BMW 328i

    Everything except the mph are straight from GM, so that's official. If someone wants to check my math on the mph, please do

  5. #20
    Stingroo's Avatar
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    Re: ATS vs. BMW 328i

    Is this car equipped with CAGS? That might be why he needed "fourth gear" to get to 60?

  6. #21
    pragmatic is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ATS vs. BMW 328i

    Quote Originally Posted by Stingroo View Post
    Is this car equipped with CAGS? That might be why he needed "fourth gear" to get to 60?
    CAGS is only needed to avoid gas guzzler tax. Not an issue with these engines.

    My takes on the video,
    first time I've heard complains on the BMW manual transmission.
    Why is there a kickdown stop on the throttle with a manual transmission?

    Why does every American car with a manual (in this market segment) shoot it self in the foot? Fords original SHO had a great engine with lousy shift linkage. Lack of sales was (still is) used to justify not offering a MT in a four door sedan. Why does the current CTS only offer the 3.0L with the MT and not the 3.6L, also no summer tires or performance suspension when ordering the MT? Sure they offered the 3.6 for first model year of the new style so the magazines would test it then they quietly took away all performance options with the MT. My current car (Lincoln LS with MT) only offered the MT with the smallest engine (it did only come with performance suspension package). I can live with the 2.0L engine (actually prefer the lighter weight) but get the shift feel right.

  7. #22
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Cags doesn't necessarily defeat gas guzzler tax. The cts-v has both.

    I have had a lot of manual trans cars, foreign and domestic. Almost all of them had lousy shifters. It's a sad fact of life.

  8. #23
    M5eater's Avatar
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    Re: ATS vs. BMW 328i

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    Based on what I found at media.gm.com:

    This is based on the Tremec M3L TR3160 transmission, 255/35R18 rear tires, 3.27:1 final drive, and a 7000 RPM redline:

    1st....4.12:1...38.6 mph
    2nd...2.61:1....60.8 mph
    3rd...1.81:1....88.0 mph
    4th...1.30:1....122.6 mph
    5th...1.00:1....159.4 mph
    6th....0.80:1...199.2 mph

    Now mind you, this is strictly theoretical, mathematical limits at the 7000 rpm redline. I suspect first-fourth will probably go a little higher, as the rev limiter is probably 100-200 rpm above redline. And certainly sixth, probably fifth top speeds will be limited by power, not engine speed. I'd be surprised to see the 2.0T even hit 150. I bet it tops out around 140ish.

    but as you can see, it will easily hit 60 in 2nd gear. Whoever said 4th is required for 60 mph was smoking crack.
    My 190 hp, 1997 Maxima hit 60 in 2nd gear.

    so.. Motor-trend is bold-face lying?

  9. #24
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    It's either them or GM. Or my math is wrong. And I doubt it since Quattro pro did the arithmetic.

  10. #25
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    I did not even fully read this tread. Where did the 4th gear/60 mph thing come from?

  11. #26
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    Re: ATS vs. BMW 328i

    Quote Originally Posted by JimmyH View Post
    I did not even fully read this tread. Where did the 4th gear/60 mph thing come from?
    This idiot reviewer for MT is saying in the review the reason the ATS takes an extra .5 seconds to reach 60 is because 'you have to grab 4th @ 55mph'

  12. #27
    pragmatic is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: ATS vs. BMW 328i

    I think the MT report mis spoke. I think you need 3rd to get to 60. So what, other than magazine testing speed to 60 is only for comparison. Once you know one car did it in 2nd and the other required another shift to 3rd you adjust the readings to take that into account. In real world driving, getting to highway speed (70 mph) from 40 (start of ramp), or passing on a two laner (usually 50 to 90) is more important than 0-60.

    I had an XR4Ti that would reach 60 in second, but 2nd was too high and 2nd and 3rd were too close. When making turns (slowing to 30) a downshift to 2nd caused bogging. When that transmission crapped out I put a T5 from a Ford Ranger in. Then it topped out at around 50 in 2nd but it was more useful in town.
    My current car Lincoln LS works well when passing, an easy 5th to 3rd shift at 50mph increases engine speed from 2100 to around 3500rpm this allows me to get up to 100 before requiring a shift.
    The ATS should work well at 50 a drop from 6th to 3rd will increase engine speed from 1750 to 4000 while 6th to 4th would give an engine speed of 2850 (a little too slow though the ecm control of the turbo wastegate could make it very useful). So as long as your not going to exceed 88mph while passing 3rd is a good gear without a shift. Now how smooth all of this shifting will be is another thing altogether.

  13. #28
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: ATS vs. BMW 328i

    There's no way. Maybe, MAYBE, you have to shift to 3rd for 60, But I really, really doubt it. The last car I had that wouldn't get to 60 in second was my 1992 Saturn SC with 120hp. I stand by my numbers, +/-5%. There is no way in hell the ATS tops out at 55 in 3rd.

  14. #29
    The Tony Show's Avatar
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    I've got 5 bucks says he meant you need to grab 4th at the top of the 1/4 mile. He commented there was only a 2mph difference in trap speeds despite the ET difference, which sounds to me like a delay caused by one extra shift.

    The voiceover is recorded long after the actual test- he probably just flubbed that and included the "shift to 4th" comment in the wrong place. Either that or he meant third gear and just said 4th by mistake.
    Rest in Peace, J.D. (aka Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood)

  15. #30
    JimmyH is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: ATS vs. BMW 328i

    I bet Tony nailed it. I calculated 88 mph for 3rd, and it has to trap higher than than. Around 100 probably.

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