Create an RWD Allante ?

[scourge]

Thought that this was very interesting. I know its a completely differennt car...but interesting nonetheless....

Northstar powered '94 Camaro. Not my favorite car but I love the engine....and its different.







'90 Camaro V6 700R4

Accessory brackets, engine mounts, headers and wiring by HPS

Ultra Z Ram Air Hood and Airbox

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http://www.hpsalvage.com/ - Click on Project Cars

[Allante North *]

Originally Posted by scourge

I like this pic and it remains the only visual of an Allante undercarriage that I have yet seen.



I have the dimensions on the Corvette IRS and I'm now working on finding out about the SC300 rear subframe. Would like to get measurements on the Allante. In due time I guess.

scourge,

Thats a pic of my Allante. I wanted to put some Borlas on it since true duals and or headers were not too practical. It turned out great and looks like it should have come from Detroit that way. If your near Harriman/Knoxville give me a shout and your welcomed to have a look see under mine anytime.

[scourge]

Might be a week or two, but I'd like to take a look and bring a camera and a tape measure.

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I found this on another board I post at and I just though it was interesting considering what we are considering:

new dahlback racing polo



All the naysayers drunk on their Haterade fail to realize that making a FWD into a RWD has been done many times. All it takes is some money, creativity, and most importantly tenacity.

I am not naive enough to think its all going to be super easy but I must admit that I am so tired of all the haters (not on this board but a different Allante board) who say its dumb, too difficult, too expensive, or "why don't you just buy such-n-such?" Being a trailblazer comes with a cost not measured in dollars. Yeh, if the Department of Defense assigns me to another country then I won't have this headache anymore....but won't have the satisfaction of doing what haters say can't be done either. I've found more than one FWD to RWD swap on other cars. Now, just to have to find out the dimensions on the Allante to see how to make it come true with it.

Granted, none of the others were convertibles, but that's not enough to make me quit before even starting.

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PS. There are 22 pictures in total and the suspension shots are 11-14.

[scourge]

Found a C4 IRS on EBAY and asked the owner about it and here is his reply:

The top brace is 37.5 inched side to side. The width of the rear from rim mounting flange of disc from side to side is approx 60 inches. The rear from back to front of control arm forward mounting bracket is approx 26 inches and the total height from bottom of diff to top of upper flange mount is approx 18 inches. I intended to install this rear in a 69 camaro and was able to make all brackets to fit the rear. The rear area in the Corvette is extremely small and this rear is designed to fit a Vette so mounting in other cars is usually very easy because most other cars have much more room.

I'm going back to a shop in Murfreesboro that (is across from Hooters! ) has experience in custom fabricating tube chassis to see what can be done with the Allante. Will post up what they say for good or bad.

[Stoneage_Caddy]

just to let you know scourge ive been keeping tabs on this ....keeps all of us posted ...that grand prix link you posted really makes it look easy ..

take a look at Jag rear ends too dude , those seem to be fairly popular too for hotrods tho....

c4 rears can be had fairly cheap at swap meets , almost bought one in great shape for 300 bucks last year for our c3 vette (if i remeber right)...decided to hold off till we work out what we plan to do about the steering (debateing on the rack and pinion kit for c3s)

[Stoneage_Caddy]

a note on jag rear ends the unsprung mass is killer on them since the brakes are mounted inboard next to the diff ...

[scourge]

I'm getting info on Toyota Soarer/Lexus SC300 IRS and subframe dimensions. I don't know if I'd call that Grand Prix "easy" but it is doable. I know I couldn't do it but maybe the shop can.

I am very serious about finding out just how to make this happen. I'm not some 15-year-old Honduh Civic driving ricer in high school. The guy I am talking to is Eddie Carlisle at Performance Concepts.

There are other shops in the area, but I'll go here first. I know that some shops in Nashville deal with NASCAR/BUSCH series cars, but I don't know them off the top of my head.

I'll eventually need Allante measurements (and I hope to get them soon) and then the plan can start being worked out so as not to overlook any small detail that can much up the works later on.

[scourge]

Haven't made it to the shop yet, but I found these pics online of an Allante underbody. Just thought that I'd post them up.

[scourge]

And to think.....I was an English teacher. Had to edit muh lett'rin.
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Performance Concepts
1259 NW Broad St, Murfreesboro, TN 37129
Phone: (615) 890-9755
Owner: Eddie Carlisle

Well, went to talk to him today and I gotta say that this guy is the second coolest shop guy I have ever talked to in the USA! The other was Bill MacDowell, owner of Wild Bill's Electronics in Boaz, Alabama. I'll post up what he told me and if anyone wants to verify it, they are free to visit a local shop of their own. Might be a good idea as I am not a mechanic and you might get a better price.

So,

When I popped the idea to him, Eddie never blinked his eyes and said matter of factly and instantly that it could "easily" be done - that is, easily for a fabricator with years of racing experience. He thought the idea was really cool and in fact, there are a lot of "pro stock" racers doing exactly what I am thinking about for the Allante. And, not entirely the same thing, but the shop has a late '70s Malibu that is getting tubbed so they are doing the same thing for that car that they would have to do to an Allante...or even a mid-90s Eldorado. He said making a FWD car into RWD was more common than some people realize...people outside the racing world.

Eddie is more into drag racing and the shop car has a turbocharged Camaro putting down over 600hp. I liked the idea that he was very familar with what I was wanting to do and he has seen it/done it before with other cars for racing. That it why he first suggested a Ford 9" rear and that it would be an easy job as they fab this rear for several draggers who come in. I mentioned the Vette IRS and he said that for street driving that it would be even better. Plus, C4 Vettes are plentiful and some should be able to be found in a junk yard. Need the front engine cradle to be customized for the Northstar and the IRS can easily be cut out. One went on EBAY for less than $600 just today!

He did ask why I wanted the Northstar and I said the keep the Caddy theme going. The T-56 Tremec will need its bellhousing modified, but he said he was familar with that (from streetrodders) and that it was no problem. He did warn about the cost of repairing a North* as compared to an LS1 pluss the cheaper cost and more power of the Chevy engine. I see his point but I'd rather go Caddy for the engine. I didn't take pics of the Malibu's custom rear and now I wish I had.

When it came to price, he said it depends on sourcing the parts from a salvage yard (I got that part covered) as that's a cost he cannot control. But, he said that he could easily see it being done for $5000, but that he wanted to give himself some room so he quoted $5000-$8000. I asked him worse case scenario what the cost would be. He said he didn't know because so many things happen in a swap, but mentioned that he could not see EVERYTHING costing over $10,000+cost of the donor car. I would like to get an estimate in writing, but for such a project, I don't think that any shop would.

I then asked him a time frame and mentioned 2months. He said he could definitely finish it all in 3months. He does a good business and his workers seemed hard at it especially getting a truck ready in time for a show. There is a car show every Friday night at the Stones River Mall in Murfreesboro (in the back) and he left to take his Camaro to the show. I left the show before he got there though.

So, if anyone wants to call Eddie at Performance Concepts in Murfreesboro I posted the number and address. I can give directions and its easy to get to. Its on US Highway41 that parallels I-24 from Nashville to Chattanooga and across from HOOTERS!. I was hoping that having so many drag racing/NASCAR-BUSCH shops in the area would come in handy with this project and so it seems all can work out.

Eddie said to come in once I got a car and we could work out all the details from engine mounts, to installing the tranny through the floorboard, if a custom welded tunnel would be needed, moving the gas tank, cutting out the spare tire well, and other odds and ends. In the end though, he thought the idea was really cool and didn't see why Allante owners would get so pissy and insist that it couldn't be done. He has been fabbing and racing for years so once he gets the geometry down (I kept saying "measurements" but I learned its more correct to say geometry), its just a matter of cutting and welding.

Hope this info proves useful.

[Allante North *]

Sounds like good news. Just had a thought about sticking with a Cadillac Powerplant and possibility of problems with North* mods. Just for kicks you may want to consider a 472 or 500 swap into the Allante. Pre North* Allantes can be had for less bucks North* swaps into pre 93 Allantes are a bear. The 500 does not weigh much more than a SBC with some replacement aluminum parts like pulleys, intake, and even heads. Even a stock big block caddy would have near the same HP as the Northstar and much more torque. Another problem may lie in Allante aluminum body parts(hood). Sticking with the stock hood may prose problems with clearance on a big block.

Reguardless of what you choose I would love to follow your progress and might even like to get involved.

Keep up the research and let us know how thing come together.

[scourge]

The Northstar would just be a cool engine to swap. I know other engines could be used but I just have a thing for the North*. As for the hood, might have to custom a fiberglass one but I hope nothing is necessary. The North* already fits transversly and I don't think it would have to be installed higher longitudianlly. I know the floorboard will have to be cut to fith the T-56 though.

As for wiring, I'm glad the shop will do it because I have no friggen idea how. Maybe I am naive because I come from more of a Japanese car background - there, you will see Toyotas with Nissan engines, Nissans with Toyota engines, Mercedes Benzes with Nissan SR20DET engines, etc. Wiring is difficult but shops work it out. For Eddie's shop, I just don't think it will be too hard.
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EDIT: Unrelated, but I just thought this was cool..

Cadillac Northstar engine in an Olds Alero. Personally, I absolutely LOVE the Alero...except for it being FWD. That is the only thing that stops me from even looking for one. But, if the Allanta/Reatta can be made RWD....why not an Alero? :thumbup:

[scourge]

Found another FWD to RWD conversion kit. Man, I thought such swaps never happened off the drag racing track.

http://www.mantapart.com/

Click on the link for Performance Engine Parts

and then scroll down to Quad 4 RWD Conversion

Again, its the geometry and actual cutting and welding that seem to be the $$$$ issues.

[scourge]

Just thought that this was a cool pic:

[scourge]

Found something interesting on EBAY:





Yes, it is on this:



EBAY CAR

"Custom Zipper designed IRS and Corvette hubs with polished Aldan
adjustable coil-overs."

You know, I'm really sick of loudmouth haters who get pissy when their uneducated and unwanted opinion is rejected. There are ways. Going to talk in person to a custom rod shop as soon as I can. Slowly inching forward.

[Stoneage_Caddy]

who are these "loud mouth haters" you keep refering to ? i dont see them ....what gives ?