Differences in Early and Late Phase I Cars

**prospyder** · 11-23-09 08:32 AM

Opinons please: it seems like the major differences between early Phase I and late Phase I Allantes are 4.1L versus later 4.5L V8 engine and casette tape versus later CD player.
Are there significant differences in relaibility between the 4.1L and 4.5L V8 engines?
Are there any other significant difference between early and late Phase I cars?
I had set my sights on a 1990 Allante but now am looking at a 1987 that actually has 30,000 fewer miles on it.
Any recommendations/advice?
Thanks,
Jim

**babylac89** · 11-23-09 06:42 PM

Just to name a few, the obvious is more horsepower in the 4.5, and the '90.5 Allantes and up have a better convertible top mechanism. The convertible top is quirky to begin with, the earlier models are even more so. The overall consensus seems to be that the 91 and 92 are 'just right!' When you go to the '93, that starts a whole new round of discussion in reference to the Northstar.

Chief

**wcoates** · 11-24-09 12:35 AM

Jim
I need to start by saying that I'm a believer that any Allante is a magnificent car and I would never downplay any model year. I know many folks who love their '87 and '88s. I love my '89.

The 4.1 with 170 hp vs the 200 in the 4.5 is a major difference but the dependabilty issue needs looking at also. The 4.1 had major issues with the aluminum block. A source like the Allante guru Dick Hussey speaks of many 4.5s that he sees with upwards off 200,000 miles. Mileage does not disturb me, these cars need driven. Of more importance IMHO is documented maintenance records.

**prospyder** · 11-24-09 08:16 AM

Thanks, Bill and Chief. I appreciate your info. I'm committed to buy a 1990 Allante convertible (no hard top) today. The good: it's been well-maintained and is in very good condition and the price is low. The bad: it has had a salvage title, that, according to the seller is the result of a theft and recovery in 2001. (When the car was recovered, the instruments had all been removed, so a salvage title was issued. There is no evidence of any repair/bodywork on it.) The ugly: it has 130,000 miles on the odometer. It has the 4.5L engine and has had a GM transmission replacement about 40,000 miles ago.
I have a potential Phase I hardtop that I'll look at today, also.
I'll post more after I complete the transaction.

**Ieradi** · 11-24-09 06:57 PM

Any details on said soon-to-be Allante? Folks will tell you that if the engines are maintained they will run upwards to 250k without a major overhaul.

I had a 90' that I had totaled and sold with a salvage title. In PA you need to have the car re-titled to put back on the road. Someone purchased it with that intention but I have not heard how they made out....

Enjoy and let us know when you get the car!

**billc83** · 11-24-09 10:51 PM

Bear in mind, the 4.1 in '88 was much improved from when it was first rolled out in the mid-80s.

A big issue with the 4.1 is flushing the coolant annually and making sure the GM stop-leak pellets are used. A good friend of mine has an '87 Eldorado (also equipped with the 4.1) with 180K and still going strong. For what it's worth, I haven't had any problems with my '88.

**prospyder** · 11-25-09 07:54 AM

I got it. She's red with light tan interior and black convertible top. It's mostly unmolested, original but, while the engine doesn't miss, it also doesn't have much get-up-and-go, so I suspect some problem with the fuel system, although the only problem on the Driver's Info. is the SDD. (I've found the thread that addresses that and will try to re-set it after the holiday.)
The CD player doesn't play and the tape is very low volume (I'll clean the head.) Both electric seats work and the seat memory is functioning.
Overall, the car seems to be in good condition. Time will tell.
I'm going to try to lower the top in the next few days. Does anyone have a video of how to lower it: I searched YouTube, but nothing there?
The top is in very good condition, but has two dirt marks on either side behind each side window. I suppose that from where it sits when it's down.
the PO changed the oil (synthetic) every Spring and Fall as he only put about 1,000 miles each year in recent years. The trans. fluid looks OK and the coolant does, too.
I'll take some pix and post them as soon I am able.

**billc83** · 11-25-09 09:09 AM

Hey, those "dirt marks" are common. The Phase I top rubs against the boot. When you lower the top, it's best to put a thin layer of bubble wrap (as I did on mine) to keep it from rubbing. Anything to keep the boot from rubbing through the canvas.

Putting the top down isn't hard:
- Pull the Soft Top/Hard Top button behind the driver's seat. This will unhook the back.
- Pull the back of the soft top up and put the boot in the raised position.
- Unlatch the two latches on either side of the windshield.
- Push the top back into the boot.*
- Put boot back down. Make sure the little wheels on the underside are in their tracks.
- Relatch the latches that attach to the winshield or else the boot won't close.
- With a bit of 'oomph,' push the boot into the closed position.

* At this point, you can clearly see exactly where the boot will rub up against the top. This is when I place some bubble wrap where those "dirt marks" you described were.

Hopefully this helps you out. It's not as complicated as it seems, but the first few times can be a learning experience, so I tried to spell it out as completely as I could.

Your buying experience sounds a lot like mine. Here's to not finding your battery dead the next day!

**prospyder** · 11-25-09 05:46 PM

I nearly duplicated your purchase, Bill: I turned the passenger map light on then left the car without turning it off. Fortunately, I went back out to the garage and discovered the light still on before letting it run the battery down overnight.
The biggest unknown about raising and lowering the soft top is what to do with the rear side windows. Do they fold into the top?
I am trying to find the color names and codes for the red paint with light tan interior. I've tried searching the forum, but haven't been able to find a table nor do I know where to look on the car for the build code sticker. Anyone know where to find the color names and codes for the 1990?

**billc83** · 11-25-09 07:57 PM

The rear windows are a part of the top. When you fold the top down, the windows will follow suit. You quite literally have to do nothing with them.

My battery was simply bad. The seller said I'd have to replace it soon, but I didn't realize it would be the next morning.

**prospyder** · 11-29-09 10:00 AM

I'm learning some more about my new-to-me Allante. The rear quarter windows do take care of themselves and I lowered the top with no problem. Thanks for that, billc.
The body is in excellent condition with only two small dings that could probably be taken out by a dent wizard type repair shop. The paint appears to be original and is unfaded with minimal scratches. The plastic bumper covers have been recently resprayed, according to the seller and to some telltale overspray in the wheel wells.
The interior carpets have a few spots here and there and a few stains, but are basically very good. The leather is quite dry and has two cracks and some scuffing on the driver's seat and the armrest. I'll treat the leather to a good cleaning and some Zymol soon.
The engine compartment is very clean and the seller states he has not steam cleaned it -- good! The serpentine belt needs to be tightened, the AC clutch bearings are shot and the exhaust is louder than expected. It sounds like a new mufler is in order. As noted before, the engine seems to be running a little rough, so I'll try some injector cleaner.
There are some electrical gremlins: the SSD needs to be reset so I'll try the proc. from this forum. The electric lock switch on the driver's door doesn't work properly, the CD player doesn't play, the cigarette lighter in the console is disconnected (and will remain so) but most troublesome is that the pulldown motor is no working. The rocker switch behind the seat does nothing and the motor doesn't energize when the J-hook is pushed into it. I've printed out the procedure for adjusting the pulldown motor and will try that this week. I'm looking at a Phase hardtop tomorrow, so I may be able to postpone the need for the pulldown motor to function if I buy it, relying on the four hardtop clamps to hold the hardtop in place.
I want to order a shop maual and am waiting to hear back from Dick Hussey to get information to buy one.
One of the main reason I decided to buy an Allante -- after it's drop-dead Italian good looks and American drivetrain -- is this forum and the suppport you ladies and gentlemen provide, so thanks for the information provided me so far.
Jim
Webster Groves, MO

**c5 rv** · 11-30-09 08:56 AM

Re the rear pulldown motor, make sure the connector near the motor is plugged in. The previous owner of my car had unplugged it because it cycled continuously.

**prospyder** · 11-30-09 11:41 PM

UPDATE: I'll check the pulldown motor connection and adjustment as soon as I can.
I got a Phase I hardtop for $495 today and, after some initial fumbling around with it, it fits like a glove! It has a very good tan headliner to match my interior and the gaskets and glass are all very good. The exterior color is pearlescent white with lots of scratches and stains (bird droppings left too long?), some corrosion near the driver's front corner and one small crease on the driver's side behind the side window. I'll take it to a body shop soon to get an estimate on painting it red to match the car exterior.
I passed the MO State Safety Inspection today and on the way home from buying the hardtop, the "Service Engine Soon" message appeared. I just filled the tank so maybe the cap is loose. I'll check the DIC for codes.