car won't start

dutch1944 · #1 (**permalink**) 07-12-08, 01:26 AM

i just purchased my allante two days ago and it ran great, started right up and i have logged probably 2-300 miles in these past two days with no problem.
then tonight i backed out of my ladyfriends driveway, headed down the street, made a right turn, went about another block and the car just died!. it has electrical and will turn the engine over, but doesn't seem to fire at all.
i was thinking i read someplace about the theft system shutting yhe car down after 10 seconds if something wasn't right. did i imagine that or could it be something else. car has 130,000 miles, but runs great (except for now), doesn't leak, smoke, etc. i just love it, but now i don't know what to do. i'm a "hands on" guy that likes to make my own repairs, but haven't had the allante long enough to figure some things out.
any suggestions? it's a 1990
thanks inadvance, bud

c5 rv · #2 (**permalink**) 07-12-08, 08:22 AM

Welcome and congrats on your new car. It sounds like it could be a fuel problem. I would check the following:

- Add gas. If this car is brand new to you, it may have a stuck fuel gauge and you simply ran out of gas.

- Replace fuel filter. Again, you may not know when that was changed. I had a 99 GMC pickup that coasted to a stop on the freeway and wouldn't restart. It turned out that the dealer never replaced the fuel filter as specified in the last major service visit.

- Check the fuel pump.

carnut · #3 (**permalink**) 07-12-08, 01:23 PM

There is a schraeder valve on the fuel rail between the injector rails. Remove its cap and depress the valve. Gas should shoot out of it. If so, pull a wire off one of the front spark plugs and verify spark, then report back. The theft system will not allow the car to start or even crank over if activated, so thats not the issue. Nothing more than any other car, verify spark and fuel and report back.

dutch1944 · #4 (**permalink**) 07-12-08, 01:31 PM

thanks guys,
i'm headed over to my ladyfriends in the next hour or so. will do some checking and get back to you.
i really like this car, and bought it as an alternative to motorcycling. i'm 64 and have decided to give up motorcycles. just a little disappointed to have something like this happen after two days of ownership.
thanks for the advice, glad to know it's not anything to do with the theft device.
bud

carnut · #5 (**permalink**) 07-12-08, 02:45 PM

Before depressing the valve, turn the key to RUN for a few seconds. That will pressurize the fuel system to verify the fuel test. With the gas cap off and someone turning the key to run, you should hear the in tank pump buzz for a few seconds with your ear close to the filler neck. I think you've discovered why it was sold! And I presume theres more than 2 or 3 gallons in the tank?

dutch1944 · #6 (**permalink**) 07-12-08, 03:17 PM

"And I presume theres more than 2 or 3 gallons in the tank?"

unfortunately yes! i just filled it up and had driven about 60 miles. i say unfortunately if i have to drop the tank.
maybe you meant, am i sure i have fuel.
my ladyfriends and her son just went shopping, so i'll wait 'til he gets back to help me check the things you mentioned.
thanks, bud

Edahall · #7 (**permalink**) 07-12-08, 03:29 PM

Also check the distributor to make sure none of the electrical plugs have not fallen out. The electrical plugs get old and brittle and loose their little clips that hold them into the receptacle.

dutch1944 · #8 (**permalink**) 07-12-08, 03:34 PM

i just turned the switch to the run position and pushed the schraeder vavle. about a teaspoon on fuel dribbled out. i pushed it a second time and none came out.
friend of mine said take the air filter off and spray starting fluid into the system and if it's a fuel problem, this should at least let it run a little....recommended or not.
edahall, wires look good, but haven't confirmed yet that it's getting spark...here by myself right now.
thanks, bud

carnut · #9 (**permalink**) 07-12-08, 04:33 PM

You have no fuel pressure. So check fuses related to fuel pump. Ck also the wiring connector at the oil pressure switch. If loose there, it will disable the pump. Switch is just to the left of the upper radiator hose where it connects to the thermostat, just above the oil filter, its vertical. Also check the oil pressure sensor that is horizontal below the oil sender for a loose connection. Lift up the center ash tray assembly to get to the fuses. Test each one, key on, with a test light for power on both sides. The fuel pump relay, I think, is in the bank of relays hidden behind the coolant recovery tank. 3 of them should be the same part number. Swap them if all fuses are good. Owners manual should identify the fuses. Rather a bugger to remove the flex hose at the throttle body inlet to spray and potential backfire and fire.

dutch1944 · #10 (**permalink**) 07-12-08, 05:42 PM

thanks a million for all the good info carnut. one other thing i did that might have contributed to this, is i washed the engine at a car wash after i changed the oil/filter and had the tranny gasket replaced. i tried to keep the spray away from vital components(electrical)and did drive the car probably a hundred miles after that with no problem.
thanks again, really appreciated. have to go to a birthday party this evening, so will be tomorrow before i get back to it.
bud

carnut · #11 (**permalink**) 07-12-08, 06:24 PM

The fuel pump fuse is no. 19 in the panel under the ash tray. Looking from the left upper corner count down to the 3rd ? column to 19. Washing the engine might be a good clue because both oil sensors are next to the oil filter adaptor! Gently unhook the plastic locking collar around the oil sender wiring, remove plug and apply dielectric grease to the connector. Same with the oil sensor mounted below it. Good rule of thumb is every time a wiring plug is removed, apply dielectric grease to the pins in the connector. Most all connectors having to do with reading the sensors underhood are powered at much less than 12 volts and low amperage so loose, corroded connections are common.

Stealth · #12 (**permalink**) 07-13-08, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnut

The fuel pump fuse is no. 19 in the panel under the ash tray. Looking from the left upper corner count down to the 3rd ? column to 19. Washing the engine might be a good clue because both oil sensors are next to the oil filter adaptor! Gently unhook the plastic locking collar around the oil sender wiring, remove plug and apply dielectric grease to the connector. Same with the oil sensor mounted below it. Good rule of thumb is every time a wiring plug is removed, apply dielectric grease to the pins in the connector. Most all connectors having to do with reading the sensors underhood are powered at much less than 12 volts and low amperage so loose, corroded connections are common.

I keep a pressurized can, 6 oz I think, of the di-electic grease and every connector that I touch gets it, exceptions are inside the fuel tank and transmission. I believe that is one of the secrets of my aging cars running trouble free.

FYI - the fuel rail should sport around 40 psi of fuel pressure. If you got the key ON and you push the schraeder valve, there should be lots of fuel. In comparison, I believe your garden hose runs about 15 psi .. how much water would you get from a pin hole in a hose? IF it trickles, as carnut stated, you got fuel delivery issues: fuse, wiring, pump, filter.

the fuel pump you can hear running for a couple of seconds when you first turn the power on, before you crank the engine. IF it is silent, it aint running.

.

dutch1944 · #13 (**permalink**) 07-13-08, 02:57 PM

thanks again for the info guys.
i've had the car towed to my house where i have access to tools, jack, etc.
i've checked all the connectors/fuses, they seem fine. now i have jacked the car up and removed the fuel filter. with it removed, i turned the switch on and the pump puts out about a 3/8" diameter of fuel, but it didn't "shoot" it out, just sort of came out the line like a water faucet in the house when it's barely opened. i know with old mechanical pumps the fuel would shoot six feet or so when they were disconnected on the carb side if it was working right...is an electrical pump suppose to do the same...i.e. shoot the fuel out from the tank line 5-6 feet?
when i keep the starter turning, it will give me a continuos flow, but again, it's just running out of the line, not shooting.
thanks, bud

Stealth · #14 (**permalink**) 07-13-08, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dutch1944

thanks again for the info guys.
i've had the car towed to my house where i have access to tools, jack, etc.
i've checked all the connectors/fuses, they seem fine. now i have jacked the car up and removed the fuel filter. with it removed, i turned the switch on and the pump puts out about a 3/8" diameter of fuel, but it didn't "shoot" it out, just sort of came out the line like a water faucet in the house when it's barely opened. i know with old mechanical pumps the fuel would shoot six feet or so when they were disconnected on the carb side if it was working right...is an electrical pump suppose to do the same...i.e. shoot the fuel out from the tank line 5-6 feet?
when i keep the starter turning, it will give me a continuos flow, but again, it's just running out of the line, not shooting.
thanks, bud

that may be fine .. now we know the pump IS running, wires are ok, fuses are ok .. but .. it is one thing to get flow, it is a whole different thing to build and maintain pressure. a pump can easily pump under no pressure and fail under pressure.

we need to know how the flow is at the rail .. SO .. get to the parts house and get a PRESSURE GAGE to test fuel pressure at the rail. I think they can be had for under $40, they arent that expensive.

REALLY do this before you go tearing into the fuel tank.

.

dutch1944 · #15 (**permalink**) 07-13-08, 03:36 PM

thanks stealth,
i'll probably wait 'til tomorrow now. have a friend who will loan me a fuel pressure gauge.
i really hope it is a pump. i know that's a big job, and i'll probably take it to my mechanic friend simply because he has a lift that allows him to get the job done quickly. maybe electrical would be cheaper to repair, but just tracking it down seems a huge undertaking to me.
i'll let you know what i find.
thanks again for all the advice,
bud