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Cadillac Forums: The GM black box
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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 01-14-04, 11:53 PM
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The GM black box

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From USAToday article:

USAToday - GM installs 'black boxes' in cars http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/t...8.htm11/23/99- Updated 02:20 PM ET WASHINGTON - (AP) General Motors Corp. has installed devices in hundreds of thousands of its cars that collect data when a car crashes much like a black box on an airplane. Doctors, engineers and government officials say the information can help them better understand how the human body tolerates car crashes. They plan to apply that knowledge to construct safer cars, improve the treatment of crash victims and write government auto safety standards that would better protect passengers in auto accidents. The existence of the so-called auto black box system also is raising sensitive privacy questions about whether such information can be used in litigation. The most sophisticated version of GM's device, known formally as a sensing and diagnostic module, is in hundreds of thousands of GM cars from the 1999 model year: the Buick Century, Park Avenue and Regal; the Cadillac Eldorado, DeVille and SeVille; the Chevrolet Camaro and Corvette and the Pontiac Firebird. The module will be in almost all GM vehicles in a few years, the company says. The module, part of the air bag sensing system, stores information in the few seconds before a car sensor identifies a crash and fires the air bags. The data includes the speed of the car, whether the driver was wearing a seat belt, when an air bag deployed and whether the driver used the brakes. GM has quietly installed different versions of the sensing system on some cars throughout the 1990s, but the modules have become more sophisticated over time. Their existence became public in a paper written by GM and government engineers and presented at a conference last month. Up until now, government crash investigators could only take an educated guess at the speed of a car involved in an accident based on evidence at the crash scene. GM is currently the only automaker that makes such data and a tool to
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recover it available to researchers, the paper said. GM hopes to have laptops available so government crash investigators can download data independently of the company by the end of the year. Bob Lange, director of engineering safety for GM, said he wanted to use the device to collect crash injury information from all age groups so that autos could be designed to further ''reduce the likelihood of injuries.'' The module helped GM figure out last year why some air bags were deploying inadvertently, leading to a recall of more than 850,000 Cavaliers and Sunfires to change a computer software program. ''There's an incredible opportunity to improve safety,'' said Dr. Jeffrey Augenstein of the Crash Injury Research and Engineering Network. Augenstein said if doctors know more about crashes, they can target their treatment of patients, in some cases including checks for serious injuries they might have missed. John Hinch, a research engineer at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration and one of the authors of the paper, said he saw ''lots of potential'' for the module's data. ''If we can understand crashes better, we can have better sensors (in automobiles), better air bags,'' Hinch said. ''NHTSA can build better (safety) rules and have better information for consumers.'' Insurers also seem to favor so-called black boxes for cars, in part because it would help them determine who is at fault in accidents. But they say state courts will first have to sort through how such devices could be used in litigation and whether they are reliable. Norman Jolly, an attorney who has litigated auto cases, said he has already seen auto companies try to use air bag deployment information stored on a car computer chip as a defense in lawsuits. Jolly and Richard Schiffrin, another lawyer involved in auto lawsuits, believe companies will not be able to keep such information private. ''It's inevitable that information from a technology such as this would find its way into the public domain -- either through litigation arising out of an automobile accident or an investigation,'' Schiffrin said. Ford Motor Co. said a more limited version of the module was on all its 1999 vehicles, but the company is unable to retrieve the data for customers.
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DaimlerChrysler AG also has a limited version that can detect whether an air bag deploys but a spokesman said the company was still considering other applications of the technology. Copyright 1999 Associated Press. All rights reserved.


Ok...thats great. The problem is this technology is NOT typically available to the general public. Only law enforcement has access to the required Vetronix CDR equipment to access this valuable data. www.airbagcrash.com makes this data available to you. More...

How the CDR system works
For many years, airplane crash investigators have had the benefit of retrieving data from the flight-data recorder. This information has proven invaluable for helping to determine what happened in the critical time before a crash. In 1997, the National Transport Safety Board (NTSB) made the recommendation that vehicle manufacturers and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration work together to gather information on vehicle crashes using onboard collision sensing and recording devices. As a result, General Motors expanded the data downloaded to permanent memory in the air bag sensing and diagnostic module at deployment or in a near deployment collision. Since 1973, when GM first introduced air bag-equipped cars, some crash data has been recorded. As explained in the owner's manuals of GM vehicles, the amount of recorded data has expanded with time and technology. The capability to record pre-crash data was included with some 1999 GM vehicles following the NTSB's recommendation. The Vetronix CDR System helps further the NTSB's recommendation by creating a product that downloads the data stored in recordable airbag modules.

General Motors has authorized Vetronix Corporation of Santa Barbara, California, to develop software, hardware and interface cables to allow the recorded data to be downloaded to commonly used computers. Data useful to researchers and investigators, such as delta-V, driver seat belt usage, and pre-impact data is stored and displayed in an easy-to-read format. This new tool also allows the investigator to input other pertinent information, such as weather conditions, and export the data to a remote database. Interface cables that connect directly to the airbag module are available for vehicles that cannot be powered up after a crash.

Any questions or comments are more then welome on this link. We will try to provide any technical information that is requested.

Logan
www.airbagcrash.com
www.logandiagnostic.com
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-04, 09:00 AM
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Re: The GM black box

Wow. Sneaky GM.. So why would one want this report? Not questioning its value as that's easy to see.. But is this something than an individual would want information about? It's certainly interesting so let's hear more about it...
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 01-16-04, 12:28 PM
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Re: The GM black box

I wouldnt consider it as GM being sneaky. Since the mid 70s GM has always recorded airbag data. Of course as electronics/technology have progressed so has the amount of recorded data. The original intent of the data was for internal testing and development of current and future airbag systems. My guess would be that every car maker and airbag system on the market contains recorded data.

Several years ago GM was sued for privacy issues over the recorded data. So GM released the hardware/software to Vetronix in order to have this crash data available to the aftermarket. The result is the Vetronix CDR module. Currently the module covers 1994-current GM and a few 2000 and newer Ford vehicles. The plan is to add other vehicles with software upgrades to the Vetronix CDR. So in the future its quite possible that one would be able to obtain crash data from a BMW or Honda in the same way as with the GM systems. Also with software updates....it may be possible to get GM data from pre 1994 vehicles. NHTSA is all for having this crash data information available. The Vetronix CDR has benn validated as being accurate at obtaining the crash data.

Obtaining crash data.....hopefully you would never have a need for our services. But the ability for the general public to obtain the recorded crash data is nil. Very few companies/states actually have this equipment. I doubt if you contacted your state police unit they would be willing to download the recorded information at any price. It would be the rare situation, where the data would be desired, but we would be able to obtain the recorded crash information for you.

Data ownership.....this is a huge issue. The current rule of thumb is the owner of the vehicle owns the data. There have been several cases where police departments have pulled the SDM module for data retrieval....without the owners permission. Bad, bad, bad.

More on recorded data......you total your car. The bank or insurance company writes you check. They now own the crash data. '1984' issues start coming up. Lets say they obtain the crash data and add it to your file. Ok...now lets say this data is now used against you. You refinance your home for example....and you end up paying a half percent higher mortgage rate because 'you drive a little too fast.' I'm not saying this is actually happening...yet. But hopefully you can see now how really valuable this data is.

SDM tampering.... Some people have mentioned they would either swap the SDM in a crashed vehicle or destroy the SDM. Dont! The courts frown very heavily on such actions. You could lose control of the case very rapidly and be punished. That being said....if I ever wreck one of my vehicles....the SDM will be staying with me.

Logan
www.airbagcrash.com
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Old 01-16-04, 05:19 PM
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Re: The GM black box

Thank you for the explanation.. That's one very important little black box, isn't it?
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Old 02-09-04, 04:44 PM
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Re: The GM black box

More info can be found here-

http://www.cbc.ca/consumers/market/f...s/blackboxes/#

Be sure to watch the video debate.

Logan
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www.logandiagnostic.com
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Old 02-16-04, 07:57 PM
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Re: The GM black box

Actually found a case (not ours). Consider this one....

Florida v. John Walker, 20th Judicial Circuit, Lee County,
Case No. 00-002866CF RTC (2003).

This was a criminal case with a two vehicle, head-on collision. The defendant was charged with two counts of Vehicular Homicide. At issue was the defendant's speed and in which lane the collision occurred. The SDM provided evidence the defendant was not speeding at the time of the collision. The jury found the defendant not guilty. This was a trial court and not published.

Logan
www.airbagcrash.com
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Old 08-22-04, 12:02 AM
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Re: The GM black box

Here is a 124 mph sample...

http://www.millerengineering.com/cdr-ex.gif

http://www.millerengineering.com/cdr-ex.gif


Logan Diagnostic
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www.crashdatainfo.com
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Old 09-27-04, 02:58 PM
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Re: The GM black box

Last week the editor from the New York Times called....wanted to use some of our pictures from the website. We said sure.

Article came out today 9-27-04. Page D11. Yes, that is a picture of my hand and of my laptop....


It can also be seen here....

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/09/27/au...es/27CARS.html


Logan Diagnostic
www.airbagcrash.com
www.crashdatainfo.com
www.ledfix.com
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 02-27-05, 01:27 PM
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Re: The GM black box

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logandiagnostic

SDM tampering.... Some people have mentioned they would either swap the SDM in a crashed vehicle or destroy the SDM. Dont! The courts frown very heavily on such actions. You could lose control of the case very rapidly and be punished. That being said....if I ever wreck one of my vehicles....the SDM will be staying with me.
How can I assure that my SDM will be staying with me? If able, do I simply pull the chip and take with me...where is it located on my 04 SRX? Very interesting subject matter...it was discussed on "Meet the Press" this Sunday A.M.!
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Old 02-27-05, 02:10 PM
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Re: The GM black box

The 2004 SRX air bag module is mounted under the center console.

CNN and other media often refer to it as being the 'black box.' Its really the SDM air bag module.


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Old 04-09-05, 01:19 AM
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Re: The GM black box

Where is the Onstar module in the V? If I crash into another car, probably the data will be in my defense as I only speed out in open roads and don't drive agressivly in traffic. But - I sure don't want Onstar sampling my inflight data and storing it in some permanent database.
Pilots don't disable flight recorders but they all know which CB will stop the voice recorder - not that they would pull it. I would like the option to disable the recorder sometimes - and REALLY want to zap Onstar. I locked myself out once in my life I think.
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Old 04-11-05, 01:55 PM
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Exclamation Re: The GM black box

OnStar and the air bag black box are 2 different issues...

2005 CTS V? The air bag SDM 'black box' is mounted under the center console.



Logan Diagnostic
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File Type: jpg ctsdts2.jpg (29.9 KB, 38 views)
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Old 08-11-07, 07:13 PM
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Re: The GM black box

Gm did this with my grandpas accident and stole the module that holds the data and rerecorded over it to save there butt. Stupid idea to fudge info that can be proven wrong. The seatbelts failed in his chevy van and he got ejected. It showed that he was not wearing his seatbelt when he was
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