rear sump oil pans?
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500, 472, 425, 368 Discussion, rear sump oil pans? in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Does anyone know if the oil pan from a Cadillac 425 will work instead of the rear sump oil pan ...
  1. #1
    Allante North *'s Avatar
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    rear sump oil pans?

    Does anyone know if the oil pan from a Cadillac 425 will work instead of the rear sump oil pan from an Eldorado on a 500CI? I will be installing a 500 CI Cadillac into a 1976 El Camino. The reason I ask is because I saw one on Ebay that went for about $150.00+- and the text said that the sump was 12" back and the Eldorado rear sump was like 15". I still have the 425 I was going to build, but recently bought a running 500 out of a 1975 Snoop DeVille. This 500 has the Eldebrock intake and no carb, so I will alos be looking for a suitable carb. I'm thinking a 850 cfm dual line double pumper, but willing to listen to suggestions.

    I plan to play with it at a nearby strip this year and spend some $$$ next year. I just decided to abandon the 425 build since I always wanted a 500 anyway and have all the 425 parts and then some at a friends shop. Any advice or suggestions would be great.

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    lux hauler is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: rear sump oil pans?

    I believe the 425 rear sump pan will work although you may have to clearence it for the rod nuts. You'll need the pick up tube from the 425 and you'll have to move the dipstick tube to the rear hole.

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    Keith is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: rear sump oil pans?

    Rear and mid sump pans measure as follows From the front lip of the pan to where the sump begins (in a straight line on the mounting surface):
    '77-'79 425 pan = 11"
    '70-76 Eldo pan = 14"
    80-81 Eldo (368 engine) = 15.5"

    I used a 500 cid from a 75 Deville and initially tried to use a 425 pan on my 4x4 swap. It required clearancing on one of the front rod journals. I put the engine upside down on the engine stand after removing the spark plugs, removed the pan gasket, bolted the 425 pan on lightly and then rotated the crank. The rod bolt scratched a small groove where it hit the pan. I took the pan off and using a ball pene hammer (no, I am not a Formula 1 mechanic :rolleyes2 ) beat a groove for the rod bolt to pass through. Reattached the pan and rotated again to verify clearance. Then, adding a new gasket gives yet another 1/16" or so of additional clearance.

    Also, with the 425 pan, you must move the oil dip stick tube to the rear most hole, and move the ball bearing plug to the forward most hole.

    I ended up using a 368 pan as its offset sump gave me better clearance from the front diff housing. Contrary to the stern warning I received from a certain Cad 500 aftermarket vendor in NM who told me the 369 would require at least 3/4" clearancing, this pan in fact bolted right up without any clearance problems.

    I rebuilt the stock q-jet, added an Edlebrock intake manifold and Sanderson headers. The engine then ran so lean that I had to increase the primary jets from 60 (which everyone tells me could not have come stock on this engine, but they were in there!) to 72 to richen things up. I suspect, unless you are really lucky, that you will do extensive tuning on the Edlebrock carb, but I would be surprised if it would out perform your stock q-jet if properly tuned.





    Quote Originally Posted by Allante North *
    Does anyone know if the oil pan from a Cadillac 425 will work instead of the rear sump oil pan from an Eldorado on a 500CI? I will be installing a 500 CI Cadillac into a 1976 El Camino. The reason I ask is because I saw one on Ebay that went for about $150.00+- and the text said that the sump was 12" back and the Eldorado rear sump was like 15". I still have the 425 I was going to build, but recently bought a running 500 out of a 1975 Snoop DeVille. This 500 has the Eldebrock intake and no carb, so I will alos be looking for a suitable carb. I'm thinking a 850 cfm dual line double pumper, but willing to listen to suggestions.

    I plan to play with it at a nearby strip this year and spend some $$$ next year. I just decided to abandon the 425 build since I always wanted a 500 anyway and have all the 425 parts and then some at a friends shop. Any advice or suggestions would be great.

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    Allante North *'s Avatar
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    Thread Starter

    Re: rear sump oil pans?

    Thanks for the reply Keith.

    I think I will try the 425 pan and see how it works. The 368 pan may be as hard to find as the 70-76 Eldo rear sump. I've been looking and had no luck. I thought I might use the 425 bare block to guage the clearence in the engine bay of the El Camino, and use that pan as well to test the install on the 500. The Bolck should be the same size...right. I hate to use the 500 to test with since it is so bulky when the bare 425 block is just sitting there. I want to get the motor mounts set and ready for the install.

    I think I will go with the Holley Carb instead of a quadrajet or Eldebrock. I am looking for one now. My engine did not come with a carb, and we used an old quad that was lying around the shop in my buddys garage.

    Any furthur comments or suggestions are welcomed.

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    Keith is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 425 engine mounts

    If you have the 425 donor car still, consider using the 425 engine mounts on your swap. As you may be aware, the 425 mounts will fit all 472/500s, and Summit Racing sells urethane replacement bushings for that mount. I used 425 mounts with the urethane bushings on my swap and really like the way they hold the engine firm - no rocking or twisting from torque on revving - and when you lower the weight of the engine on them they don't squish out like the mushy old stock rubber bushings.

    The 425 block should work fine to mock up the swap. The only thing which is really different is the oil pump - I used a 425 pump on my 500 in order to clear the front cross member. Also, I am not sure whether the 425 exhaust manifolds are the same as RWD 472s and 500s.

  7. #6
    Ogier is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Question Re: rear sump oil pans?

    Greetings all,

    Will the 425 oilpump/pickup tube work on a 472? Also, will a rearsump pan from the 425 work on a 472? I am installing a 472/turbo 400 combo into my 69 chevy 3/4 ton truck and the cross member is in the way of the front sump.

    I can modify the oil sump I have, or just buy another one. Any thoughts?

    Thanks in advance,
    Ogier

  8. #7
    lux hauler is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: rear sump oil pans?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ogier
    Greetings all,

    Will the 425 oilpump/pickup tube work on a 472? Also, will a rearsump pan from the 425 work on a 472? I am installing a 472/turbo 400 combo into my 69 chevy 3/4 ton truck and the cross member is in the way of the front sump.

    I can modify the oil sump I have, or just buy another one. Any thoughts?

    Thanks in advance,
    Ogier
    The only difference between the 425 pump and the 472/500 pump is the housing itself. The 425 pump is turned in and up towards the crank. It usually works better than the 472/500 pump in Chevy trucks as it allows the oil filter to clear the front cross member. I'm using a new Melling 425 pump in my '72 Chevy truck 500 swap.
    The 425 pan and pick-up will work on a 472. I don't think there will be any pan/rod clearence problems with the 472 though. If I'm not mistaken, the 472 and 425 share the same stroke.....check it to be sure.

  9. #8
    miss1932 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: rear sump oil pans?

    Hi. I have a 1955 Packard Clipper that's getting a 472 Cadillac motor. Have it all mocked up but in need of a 472 rear sump oil pan and pickup. I've heard that the 425 and 500 work. If anyone has a lead on one, please get in touch. thanks! Corinna

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