Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids...
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500, 472, 425, 368 Discussion, Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids... in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; I know that I probably should be posting this in the classifieds, but I figure nobody who has a set ...
  1. #1
    oldsguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids...

    I know that I probably should be posting this in the classifieds, but I figure nobody who has a set of these are actually thinking of trying to sell them. If anyone has a set of these lying around, I'd like to take them off your hands for a special project.

    I have heard that these solenoid rockers are spaced correctly for Oldsmobile engines...so, if at the very least, if someone could measure the distance between the bolts on the rockers, I would much appreciate it.

    I'm definitely toying with the idea of making one of my Olds engines a V8-6-4 type setup...perhaps my 350 diesel, although that thing has enough trouble holding cruise speed with all 8 cylinders...

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    eldorado99's Avatar
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    Re: Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldsguy View Post
    I know that I probably should be posting this in the classifieds, but I figure nobody who has a set of these are actually thinking of trying to sell them. If anyone has a set of these lying around, I'd like to take them off your hands for a special project.

    I have heard that these solenoid rockers are spaced correctly for Oldsmobile engines...so, if at the very least, if someone could measure the distance between the bolts on the rockers, I would much appreciate it.

    I'm definitely toying with the idea of making one of my Olds engines a V8-6-4 type setup...perhaps my 350 diesel, although that thing has enough trouble holding cruise speed with all 8 cylinders...
    I don't really know much about the system or anything but what would the diesel's 20:1 compression think about shutting down half its cylinders? Or even worse, V6 mode on a diesel would be terrifying.

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    BluEyes's Avatar
    BluEyes is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids...

    The V8-6-4 will NOT work to save fuel on a diesel, and would likely DESTROY the engine.

    The V8-6-4 works so easily on a carb'd or TBI car because when you stop the valves from opening, those cylinders no longer pull in an air/fuel charge. But, remember that the diesel injects fuel directly into the cylinders. So, you would be using the exact same amount of fuel, but since you have shut off the valves there is no air going in or out and the cylinder will just fill up with diesel fuel. Sooner or later (likely sooner!) there will be enough fuel in the four deactivated cylinders to hydrolock them. There will be more fuel than can fit in the combustion space at TDC and since fuel is a liquid and incompressible, something else has to give. Usually a con rod and/or crankshaft, but of you're lucky maybe it'll just blow apart the cylinder head. I've seen photos of the carnage from engines that sucked up water and hydrolocked and it isn't pretty in the slightest.

    If you can't find a set of solenoid controlled rockers, just
    pick up a pair of pedastal rockers off any 368. Those are pretty common and they have the same rocker geometry as the V8-6-4 ones so you could easily check if they'll fit.

  5. #4
    oldsguy is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids...

    OK, so the diesel idea is out, at least until I can engineer a method to switch off the fuel to the deactivated cylinders (not that hard of a plan, I think, since all the fuel lines to each cylinder are simply 1/4" fuel lines -- some kind of electromechanical switch that would send the fuel to the return line to tank.)
    I have other Olds engines that I would like to try this on (specifically, the 455 in my station wagon.) The idea here would be to eliminate the V6 version since I really can't see myself in a situation where it would be useful (pedal has two positions - WOT and idle ). AFAICT, the solenoids can be put on a simple rocker switch/downshift switch to make them work.
    There's a picture of the solenoids at this thread.
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...highlight=olds
    If anyone has a set of these solenoids, please drop me a line.

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    Re: Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids...

    Yup, they're just a simple solenoid and could easily be rigged to a switch. A NC relay in the switch wiring would ensure the solenoids cut off with the downshift switch. It is best to toss the V6 mode anyways because it has a vibration problem - one of the complaints about those cars back in '81.

    A valve of some sort to shunt the fuel around the injector would certainly work, just be sure the valve and fittings are rated for the massive fuel pressure. Might also want to consider a second return line to handle the increased volume.

    I'll be honest, those solenoids are mine, but they are destined for my SDV once I graduate and have time and space to do some headwork. Of course, if you only ever do WOT and idle, the solenoids wouldn't ever see any use because you need all 8 in both of those positions

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    Zorb750 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids...

    On a diesel all you would need to do is to shut off the fuel to four at a time. Mercedes has done something like that in the past too. Some of their engines run NO fuel at all through them when the car is decelerating in gear and the engine's speed is being maintained via the transmission.

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    BluEyes's Avatar
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    Re: Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids...

    Yes, the injection pump can definately cut off all the fuel under decelleration. My 220D will do that. The engine goes silent and my tach goes dead (because it senses the injection pulses in the line). But, this is just a result of the inputs to the injection pump putting the internal bits into the shutoff position. Remember, the only way to stop a diesel is to stop the fuel so the pump has to be able to stop flow entirely. Trouble is, he needs something that will only cut off fuel to half the cylinders and the injection pump has been very carefully designed to always give the same fuel to each cylinder.

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    The Ape Man's Avatar
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    Re: Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zorb750 View Post
    On a diesel all you would need to do is to shut off the fuel to four at a time. Mercedes has done something like that in the past too. Some of their engines run NO fuel at all through them when the car is decelerating in gear and the engine's speed is being maintained via the transmission.
    I just love the engine braking from this. Too bad Cadillac didn't do the same back then. They really needed more engine braking on the 2.41 and 2.21 geared cars.

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    Zorb750 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids...

    Then again... Displacement modulation with a diesel would not be as effective as with gasoline due to the fact that diesel runs on a wide range of air/fuel ratios. The systems that used something like it were just trying to avoid the risk of stalling or excessively cooling down the cylinders on long decelerations.

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    Re: Need some of those V8-6-4 solenoids...

    Quote Originally Posted by The Ape Man View Post
    I just love the engine braking from this. Too bad Cadillac didn't do the same back then. They really needed more engine braking on the 2.41 and 2.21 geared cars.
    Yes, the engine braking is truly incredible. We have a large hill here - 7-8% grade, goes up 2000ft, three runaway truck ramps (that get used more often than I'd really like to see...). But, in the Benz I've gotta stay on the throttle to maintain speed! I tried taking my foot off the gas once to see where it would coast at, but gave up when the speed started falling under 45mph. Of course, the 3.92 gears it has probably help alot.

    Zorb, I think you're right about a diesel not seeing as much of a gain from this. Shutting off the valves will save you pumping losses in those four cylinders (and with diesels 22:1 compression, this probably isn't trivial), but you probably won't get the same thermodynamic gains as a gas engine sees from getting all the power from fewer cylinders. Part of the gain on a gas engine is that when you go to four cylinders, you are allowing more air into each of them, which increases the cylinder pressure and improves combustion. Since most diesels already are taking in a full charge of air every stroke and combusting as efficiently as they can, you won't see that part of the gain of cylinder deactivation.

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