500, 472, 425, 368 Discussion, 500sx in Cadillac Engine Discussion; You know how much easier it would be to stick a 500 into a G-Body than into a 240sx? It's ...
- 01-19-06 08:08 AM #46
You know how much easier it would be to stick a 500 into a G-Body than into a 240sx? It's quite straightforeward with a G-Body. Lot of uncharted territory with an SX. BTW, wouldn't it be 820sx? A 240sx weighs 27-2800+lbs, with a 2.4l in it. I'd expect 3000-3100+ with a 500. A G-Body would probably weigh around 3500+ or so with a 500.
A G-Body would be great.
But IMO, a Fox would be better. A friend of mine and I are starting a 500 86 Thunderbird project in late March or April (when it's warm enough outside.) I expect that to weigh 3500 or so as well. Find a nice Fox Mustang (will probably be cheaper than a G-Body if anything) roller and go from there. It will weigh a couple hundred less than my Thunderbird, so not much more than an SX. Not to mention that there's more aftermarket available for Foxes as far as race parts than G-Bodies, and WAY more than a Nissan.
- 01-19-06 08:19 AM #47
LOL, that is one of the best upgrades for a blue oval car - GM power! (funny how many T-buckets and dueces have a SBC, huh?)
Too bad it's still got that blue oval up front though, but I guess that could be switched for a wreath and crest...
I agree, an SX would be an ambitious 500 swap. Don't they have a strut suspension up front though? There might just not be enough width.
Ever thought about a Monza or a Chevette? Both are small, light (~3000#) and already RWD. Plus very few people really like them, so they aren't going to cost much. Monzas came with SBC's optional, so there's a fair amount of room under the hood. A Chevette might be really tight, but people have put 4.6 V6's in them, so they are at least close in width... Good thing the sparkpluigs on a Caddy are really easy to reach!
An issue with ALL these cars is the rear axle. The GM 7.5" rear isn't renowned for its strength. Being a light car does help, but the 500 puts out alot of torque, so if you put slicks on I wouldn't be surprised if you start looking for a stronger axle. With street tires it won't be a problem, they'll just spin if you sneeze on the gas pedal with a 500...
Maybe the rear from a Caddy could be narrowed and adapted to fit?
- 01-19-06 08:24 AM #48
That's one reason for the 240sx...uncharted territory. Also, the 240sx has the 2.4L iron block in there. The 500 wouldn't weigh that much more.
Also the rear end would probably be a narrowed Ford 9"
- 01-20-06 02:39 AM #49
A 500 is going to outweigh an iron I4 by several hundred pounds. A 9" is going to outweigh whatever's in there. A TH400 is as well. Now that I think about it, a 820sx would probably not end up weighing more than 1-200lbs less than a light Fox. If I were going for the lightest possible swap I'd think maybe Datsun 240.
If you want to explore uncharted territory, go for it. Just make sure you have a LOT of time to do the work, and cash for when you screw up, and patience for when things go wrong. I really wouldn't reccomend this as the second car project you do.
BluEyes... LuxLx's 500 Stang actually has a wreath and crest on the grille. Considering it with the Thunderbird project as well.
As far as a Chevette, it's actually been done with a 472. Google "bad seed chevette" and you might come up with something. The TH400 is pretty much the right side armrest for the driver...
The 7.5 in G-Bodys are weak, the 7.5" Ford is probably weaker, but AFAIK most V8 Mustangs are the 8.8" which would be enough for this type of project. My Thunderbird came with a 7.5" but we picked up a 2.73 (good for a street Caddy) 8.8" rear axle for $100... haven't checked yet but hoping for factory posi. The point is 8.8s are cheap and to come by.
- 01-20-06 08:21 AM #50
You guys do have a point. Either way, nothings going to be done in either direction until I get the Eldo done. Just a few more months...
- 01-20-06 10:53 AM #51
Re: 500sxOriginally Posted by terrible one
You will end up with a noticably heavier car, and don't be surprised if the handling is nowhere near as good as pre-swap, but it would go like mad.
Just measure carefully before doing anything permanant. You may find that it is just too big, and it's best to find that before you're dropping the engine in. This is a big engine even under a Cadillac hood. It is also VERY wide. Remember,the factory put heat shields around the upper a-arm bushings to protect them from exhaust heat since they are so close.
The 240SX looks like a toy next to our yachts, and is a bunch narrower.
- 01-20-06 05:59 PM #52
Well, I personally REALLY like the 80's G-body, they mean alot to me, and I would rather own say an '88 Cutlass then an '88 Mustang.
about the rear, woudln't the standard GM 8.5" fit?
If I was doing a 500 build in something other then a Caddy, and it was gonna be a regular car (IE not made for auto-X or pure drag racing etc...) it would be the G-body.
- 01-20-06 06:00 PM #53
Yeah, a 4" or so cowl would be a definite I'm sure.
I know it will be heavier, and definitly front heavy, but maybe not as much as you guys think. Scraping all the things in the engine bay that are necessary like a/c compressor, condensor, heater core, etc etc. The engine and tranny will be heavier, but the new rear will be heavy too for a bit of a balance. Interior will be gutted and it will have some aluminum wheels or something to take away from the weight a bit as well. I would have to see.
I know the handling won't be great. This can be made better but won't get very good. Either way, this car is mostly just an experiment...something to do. Hell, I may try a bone stock 500 at first just to see where I'm at. I've looked at them, and the engine bay is actually pretty large. It definily has a lot of room front to back. Side to side is a bit narrow, but I think it would make it. Custom headers and all anyways, so I could have some control there...
- 01-20-06 11:36 PM #54
So you are back to the 240SX and going to do it?
Hell, may as well get a Miata
- 01-21-06 01:26 AM #55
I'm really not to anything, just throwing out what I've put together about the 240sx. Hell, I may still be in for the Charger. Only time (and budget!) will tell.
- 01-21-06 02:06 PM #56
A couple of years ago, I was pondering putting a 350LT1 or something like that into an '80s Cutlass Supreme Coupe..
And then I discovered the Broughams and that plan went out the window.
- 01-21-06 09:32 PM #57
G-bodies are a bit heavier than Foxes. So I figure if I were to do a G, I may as well eat a couple hundred pounds and do a 77-84 Coupe Deville, with an aluminum hood and a lil weight reduction it could weigh in at 37-3800.
I'm aiming for 3400 with a Thunderbird, and Stangs are even lighter. With the aftermarket available, you could do a lot of fiberglass and get it closer to 3000 even with a bit of work.
- 01-21-06 11:50 PM #58Cadillac Owners Member
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- Oct 2005
You'd Get Respect For A 500 In A 240. Kinda Like A Mopar Big Block In A Porsche.
A 500 In A G-Body, Fox, Cadillac, T-Bird..... I'd Walk Right By It At The Car Show.
- 01-22-06 12:50 AM #59
Thats true...but look at what he owns
- 01-22-06 03:53 AM #60
Re: 500sxOriginally Posted by UtilityCow
in a show I would be staring at a 500 in a Cutlass and not in a 240SX... why? because it combines an engine I like with a car I like... not an engine I like in a car I don't care for....see what I mean? while enjoying being int he presence of the Cutlass, there is a built 500 in there as well.
a Mopar big block in a Porsche? Again, the question is why? I mean, personally... even if it was faster... why? I would rather keep the Porsche engine.... obvious reasons.
Like I said... some cars the 500 just dosn't belong in.... of those cars ar high performance, handling-orentaied cars such as the 240SX... not only for weight, but you want an engine that revs quick, and fast, and alot of gears.... not something that'll sit at 2,000RPM and tug all day... its reverse thinking to us and our 70's Caddys.
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