Help!! Rebuilding 500
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500, 472, 425, 368 Discussion, Help!! Rebuilding 500 in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Hi Y'all, I haven't been hang'n around for a while, got busy. The Story: My 500 is in my 1966 ...
  1. #1
    uba40 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Talking Help!! Rebuilding 500

    Hi Y'all,

    I haven't been hang'n around for a while, got busy.

    The Story:

    My 500 is in my 1966 Ford F-100 1/2 ton pickup. It weighs 6000 lbs. I pull a 7,500 lb trailer with it. Because I was lazy, at about 300,000 miles (motor) I blew a timing chain and essentially trashed the entire motor. But boy was that a pulling son-of-a-gun!! There is a replacement 500 in there at the moment, but it is not near the power of the one I blew. (they are both 1976 motors)

    I am going to rebuild the motor I blew.

    Recommendations for a torque producing cam??

    Is there a favorite piston??

    Somewhere I seem to recall that the advice was to not sleeve the valve guides but to replace them with bronze guides!!! Or was it they needed to be replaced with "thick" bronze liners??

    Whats the consensus on good valve springs?? they do not have to be strong, just good!!

    Is there a stainless valve for these motors, and is anybody running them, is it a big issue??

    The big deal here is to build a high torque, low rev, high quality motor which gets decent mileage. AND, if it is done right I shouldn't have to mess with it for another 10 years..........

    Most everything else is a given, balancing, quality gaskets, seals, oil pump, timing chain etc, etc.

    Please feel free to lay on the opinions.

    I know several of you are specialists in the 500 world, and would like to here from you.

    Thanks, in advance.

    uba40

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  3. #2
    terrible one's Avatar
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    How did the timing chain trash the entire motor?

    Really it all depends on your budget. Yes, bigger (2.11 / 1.77) valves are available for teh engine.

    I would suggest going with a KB hyperutectic flat top piston, which is pretty cheap, available in bore sizes up to .060 over, and will put you at a bit over 9:1 compression.

    I don't know about guides, but I do know that the bronze guides are recommended by a lot of the Cad 500 performance vendors, and it is what I will be using myself. They will wear a LOT less quickly than the cast iron guides or a sleeve.

    The springs will depend on the cam. For that I would call up Potter (cadillacperformanceparts.com) and talk to him about your build. He can suggest you a camshaft and have Comp Cams make it at any lift and have them drop ship it to your door.

    For the timing set I would suggest a Cloyes True Roller, and also you should get a Mellings oil pump, both around $100.

  4. #3
    JTraik is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    Quote Originally Posted by terrible one
    How did the timing chain trash the entire motor?
    Pistons vs. Valves = Trashed block, heads, crank (not likely in a 500), c-rods, cam etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by terrible one
    For the timing set I would suggest a Cloyes True Roller, and also you should get a Mellings oil pump, both around $100.
    Yes if your looking for durability, no if you dont want to hear your engine whining.

  5. #4
    terrible one's Avatar
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    Quote Originally Posted by JTraik
    Yes if your looking for durability, no if you dont want to hear your engine whining.
    ?

  6. #5
    JTraik is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    The design of the Cloyes true roller causes a whining sound to emit from the engine.

  7. #6
    terrible one's Avatar
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    Can you really hear it over the rest of the engine, with the hood shut?

  8. #7
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    davesdeville is offline Banned
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    If this guy wants his motor to last for 300k he better put in a Cloyes, whining or no whining.

  9. #8
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    I think you are thinking of a Cloyes gear drive (which can be ordered quiet or whiny). A chain shouldn't make any noticable noise.

  10. #9
    uba40 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    J Traik,

    Thanks for the input. I guess to be a bit more specific, I was trying to get feedback on those assorted parts which have been out there, "in use" and have proven themselves reliable, and durable.

    As I think I wrote in the opening query, I would like this to go well.

    I have not put a money limit on the rebuild, because I figure whatever I do won't cost as much as if I got someone to build it for me.

    At this stage of the game, "parts is cheap!!"

    Even if I went nuts, and put $3,000.00 in the rebuild, the cost amortized over 300,000 miles would only be a penny a mile!!

    Awfully cheap investment.

    My last motor went 300,000, and it was a bone stock production piece from the factory. By recollection, the only things I did to it were:

    1. Water pump
    2. Fuel pump
    3. Carb rebuild
    4. Exhaust manifold pass side cracked and replaced
    5. Valve grind, and head cracked pinned.......

    That's It!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Pretty Cool.........

    Gotta luv those big ole pullin boogers........

    Thanks Guys

  11. #10
    uba40 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    Blue Eyes,

    You are correct. I was planning on using the true roller which is a chain. I have had these in other engines, they do not whine.

    Thanks

    uba40

  12. #11
    uba40 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    OK,

    So here's the news on the 500 build.

    The crank was ok as a standard, but is going to .010 on both anyways, so that we can get the clearances the way the engine builder wants'em

    The bore had to go to .020 because we had about .007 taper

    The guides were actually not worn, but again, we are going to thick wall silicon bronze liners

    The rods were fine, but being resized and straightened.

    I have not yet told the engine builder, but I am thinking of either finding, or having the new lifters treated. It is a new process which I just read about and is supposed to be very slippery and exceptionally hard wearing.

    BUTTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!

    What about headers, is anybody running them, if so who's are you running, and what do you like or don't like about them???

    Thanks Guys,

    UBA40

    Only 45 days till D-Day.......... (Done Day!!)

    OH!! I almost forgot........... the builder said I didn't bend a single valve when the chain let loose!!!! Also, he said the valves were in very nice shape, and there was no need to buy new ones!!!

  13. #12
    Night Wolf's Avatar
    Night Wolf is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    So the timing chain went?

    Well, in that case, you woudln't have a bent valve if it did... the BB Cads are not an interference engine.

    Anyway, this project sounds really cool. I would like to stay updated .

    About headers, they are very effective, nearly all the main vendors sell their set, I have heard good reviews about mostly all of them, though none stick out in my mind... I haven't personally done too much research on headers though, because none of them will fit the '79 DeVille's chassis... go figure .

  14. #13
    lux hauler is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    You may have trouble finding a "bolt-on" header to fit your chassis but, a set of 429/460 headers for your chassis with a set of Cadillac flanges should work.
    As for a cam, I'd get ahold of a manufacturer or one of the cam vendors (MTS, Torque Inc. Potter's, etc.).....they should be able to recommend something that'll work for ya.

  15. #14
    Night Wolf's Avatar
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    Lux... was that in reference to my '79 or the Ford F-100?

    I would think there would be enough room in the Ford to clear headers...

    I wonder what that other guy that had a built 500 in his classic Ford pickup did...

  16. #15
    lux hauler is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Help!! Rebuilding 500

    Quote Originally Posted by Night Wolf
    Lux... was that in reference to my '79 or the Ford F-100?

    I would think there would be enough room in the Ford to clear headers...

    I wonder what that other guy that had a built 500 in his classic Ford pickup did...
    I was referring to the truck. Not only do the headers have to fit the engine, they have to fit the chassis. I'm not sure but I'm thinking that someone probably makes a header that will fit a 460 in that truck. Those headers with Caddy flanges, some cutting and welding and he has a set of headers.
    As for your car, a set of full length big block chevy headers for a full size chevy car with caddy flanges will work.

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