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500, 472, 425, 368 Discussion, Lets have a vote... in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Megasquirt is fairly affordable, just would be very time consuming. Im doing megasquirt for my cadillac. Most likley, im pulling ...
  1. #16
    abcdefg is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    Megasquirt is fairly affordable, just would be very time consuming.

    Im doing megasquirt for my cadillac. Most likley, im pulling its 425 and getting a built 500" bottom end (or possibly a stroked one).

    With fuel injecton, there is no funny buisness involved once its set up.

    Also, dont forget. Carburetors must have some kind of restriction in the airflow, in order to atomize the fuel.

    Im tired of playing games with carburetors. Im done. @#() em.

    Dont expect fuel injection to improve your gas milage a whole bunch on these cadillacs. If you want good milage, drop in a cummins diesel with 600Ft-Lbs of torque.

    If you have the time, and the money, and the need. EFI.
    Broke, just need to drive around town... Quadrajet.

  2. #17
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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    "personally"

    I would go with a carburator... I enjoy them alot more, much more simple and you don't need nearly the stuff as you do for EFI.

    The best carburator to use on an, even wild 500.... is the origanal Qudra-Jet that came on them.... say what you want about it, I love it, and it is a great carburator.

    fuel mileage.... you would be surprised how good a well-tuned carburator will do on gas.... dare I say I have seen some carb engines get better gas mileage then FI? (similar engines)

    Keep in mind, what really killed the carburator on passenger cars.... was emmissions... carburators need an over rich fuel mixture when cold, until they warm up, FI does not, so in the 80's with tighter and tighter emmissions testing and such, the only way to go (for that route) was FI..... *not* driveability or mileage.... which, as was said... once the engine is warmed up (a whopping 5mins) and with a well tuned carb, you shoudln't be able to tell the difference in driving, and gas mileage should be quite similar... now tell me.... do you care about emmissions? (hell its a Big Block Cadillac) much les cold-start emmissions?

  3. #18
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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    Also, weather the FI allows the engine to rev better or not...

    none of the BB Cad's are revvers... they are tuggers, you will not see the tach dancing up and down, it is more like it goes to a certain RPM (torque peak) and S.L.O.W.L.Y climbs.... and that is anything besides dead on WOT, where the secondaires are opened... which is also why when you build up a hi-po Cad engine and put it in a Caddy, the highest gear you really want to use is a 3.08, unlike Chevy guys where 3.11 is economey gear and 4.11 is considered normal.... these engines don't like to rev, and don't need to, so as far as I am concered, more responsive, and high revving is not an issue... my stock 425 redlines around 4,200RPM... the most you'll easily get out of a built 500, without starting to speed mega bucks is 5,000 or 5,500RPM.... 4.3" is a long stroke to be pushing any faster.

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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    Night Wolf, dont' worry, I share your views with the Quadrajet. I was planning on using it. People that hate it are the ones that have experienced a 30 year old one with no rebuild, etc etc. Also, people don't understand them. They are tuned in a much different way than a Holley, etc. However, when tuned right, they are economical beasts. Simply put.

    Emissions. There will be absolutly no emissions control equipment. No PCV valve, gas fume canister, exhaust port going to manifold, cat converter, etc etc. No emissions testing here. This is good.

    Also, I know they are low revers. We are thinking the most this thing is going to come to is 5200 or so RPM. That's where Potters rockers come in handy.

    Either way, I see that we see eye to eye on a lot of things. It makes me feel good that I've got my facts straight and the build headed down the right path.

  5. #20
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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    No matter how much you like your QJet, MPFI will outperform it in every way: power, throttle response, performance through the entire RPM range, fuel efficency, & emissions. That is not the question. The only question is if it's worth the cost or not. Seeing how a megasquirt isn't very expensive at all, and the rest of the components from a OEM MPFI system aren't too bad either I'd think FI is worth it. Hell, never worrying about jets and metering rods again alone almost makes it worth it.

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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    How much is the Megasquirt system. I paid visit to the site and looked at some of the components, but couldn't really make much of it. I know that I will be paying like $250 or so for that manifold, fuel rail, and TB. Then like $120 or $150 for injectors, then the money for the sensors, and then for the Megasquirt. I'd like to have an estimate on how much it would cost me to determine if I should do it or not

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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    An MS will run maybe $250 for a fully assembled and tested unit on eBay. It's significantly less if you build your own.

    Eventually I may go with an UltraMegaSquirt myself, it should be able to do sequential FI, along with ignition control including a knock sensor, and the ability to handle electric wastegates or nitrous solenoids...

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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    Wow that's cheap. How much would the sensors run me? What all ones would I need?

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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    This is just so tempting. I don't know what to do! I mean I thought it would be way more expensive than this.

    The carb is like $250.

    $300 for the Megasquirt and stimulator, $200 or so for the cad 500 EFI manifold, fuel rail, and throttle body, $120 for injectors, $50 for sensors?

    That's like $670 in all.

    $420 difference between multiport EFI and the carb...

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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    Forgot the fuel pump. Oh well, I think I'm doing it.

    Speaking of the fuel pump, what do I need to get? I want an external in-line pump. I know nothing when it comes to teh ratings and gph and psi, etc. Ape Man? You know anything about this subject?

  11. #26
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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    Uh Yup. You want 2 pumps. First, an in-tank pump. Same deal as a TBI pump. Nothing special and cheap, low pressure. It's just there to prime the high pressure pump that gets mounted somewhere on the frame rail. Look at pumps used on Bosch systems. No difference. Replacement pumps are marked Bosch and come with adaptors. Same pump used on BMW, Mercedes, Volkswagon and early Cadillac EFI. The pump needs to make 39 lbs across the injector. That means the manifold vacuum is subtracted from the fuel pressure which is why the fuel pressure regulator is modulated using manifold vacuum.

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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    Okay, some quiestions.

    The in-tank pump. How would I use this with the stock tank? How does it work? Where does it go?

    Not sure where to look about the Bosch systems. Need a bit of light shed here too.

    Now, I also need expalined the psi needed, how the manifold vacuum ties in, and the fuel pressure regulator.

    Sorry, still new. Thanks for all of the help.

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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    Well guys, I have been offered the EFI manifold, throttle body, and fuel rail for $175. Good deal? Sounds it to me.

    Will the A/C compressor and cruise control diaphgragm and everything still mount up?

  14. #29
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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    Quote Originally Posted by terrible one
    Okay, some quiestions.

    The in-tank pump. How would I use this with the stock tank? How does it work? Where does it go?

    Not sure where to look about the Bosch systems. Need a bit of light shed here too.

    Now, I also need expalined the psi needed, how the manifold vacuum ties in, and the fuel pressure regulator.

    Sorry, still new. Thanks for all of the help.
    Start looking at service information for cars with TBI and in-tank pumps. The pump is mounted right on the sump tube and just fits inside the top opening.

    Many port injected systems use a very similar frame pump. Even Ford 300 6 cyl trucks used a Bosch type pump for quite a few years. Service manuals have pictures and descriptions and will be a big help. Cruise Ebay looking at fuel pumps and you will get a good idea. The internet has plenty of tutorials on this subject but take information with 2 grains of salt if they are selling something.

    The port injectors mostly are designed to run with 39 lbs ACROSS them. Since they play directly into manifold vacuum the fuel pressure must be reduced according to the level of vacuum. This is done by the regulator which has a diaphragm that connects to manifold vacuum. TBI does not use this setup.

  15. #30
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    Re: Lets have a vote...

    175. If it comes with the blue 500 injectors this is better than good. You can always re-sell it and get that back if you are not in a hurry and know where to advertise.

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