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500, 472, 425, 368 Discussion, At least it can roll! in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; I bought KB's for my project. I've heard really good things about them, and the guy that is helping me ...
  1. #16
    terrible one's Avatar
    terrible one is offline Banned
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    Re: At least it can roll!

    I bought KB's for my project. I've heard really good things about them, and the guy that is helping me recommended them.

  2. #17
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    Re: At least it can roll!

    KB hypereutectic cast pistons are good pistons for a naturally aspirated performance build; as such I wouldn't bother on a stock engine, and I'd go with forged if forced induction is involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by JTraik
    Well the original seals harden and break up causing all the oil to seep past the stems, these new ones will not. The valve stems from the 60's without the chrome plate will wear down on the sides because of absence of lead to lubricate.
    Valve seals go bad due to age, not unleaded gas.

    The valve stems will wear down after time no matter what. How many miles were on your engine?

  3. #18
    JTraik is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: At least it can roll!

    Quote Originally Posted by davesdeville
    Valve seals go bad due to age, not unleaded gas.

    The valve stems will wear down after time no matter what. How many miles were on your engine?
    I never said the seals go bad because of the gas, i said the stems do because they designed the bare steel stems to be lubricated by the lead. So they now use the chrome plating to greatly increase their lifetime.

    I had 110k on it.

  4. #19
    JTraik is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: At least it can roll!

    Well i just spent $1100 at Advance for all my suspension parts, you should have seen the look on all their faces!

    Anyways im shopping for my carb rebuild kit, im keepin the good ole qjet tell me what you think of think of the kit on this site.... i recognize the part number from other kits but it is cheap at this site. (You will have to enter make and year)

    http://www.autopartsgiant.com/welcom...wd=+CARBURETOR

  5. #20
    JTraik is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: At least it can roll!

    Ok well i just dropped the crank in... i plastigauged it and came out with .0029ish across all main journals @ proper torque. I figure thats a decent clearance? Objections?
    Crank has been turned and installed with proper bearings.

  6. #21
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    Re: At least it can roll!

    That sounds pretty loose on the bearing tolerances for a fresh rebuild, even for a Chevy smallblock, never mind a Caddy.
    My sources put main journal clearance at 0.0026-0.003, and rod journal clearance at 0.0005-0.0028. I'd shoot for the very bottom edge of the spec and have a nice tight motor. Well, maybe not the super-tight end on the rods, that is REALLY tight.
    Has the crank been turned by your machinist? If so, I'd start finding a new one. Those are tolarances like you might see on a dirt track motor, and some machinists aren't that good at keeping street and race motors straight, or knowing what to do differently between the two.

    To answer some of your initial questions:
    Any auto parts store will have rebuild kits. They're all pretty much the same. If you haven't already, buy the book: Rochester Carburetors by Doug Roe. It's a must-have.

    The plastic clips might be harder. I'd try a CSK (checker/schucks/kragen) in their "Help!" section. Lots of little hard-to-find parts. Bring a broken example of your old clips to help you match. Often you will find a part that will accomplish the same thing, but looks a little different, so might not be 100% coucourse correct.

    Oh, and if you are looking for parts online, also try www.rockauto.com Really good most of the time.

  7. #22
    JTraik is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: At least it can roll!

    Quote Originally Posted by BluEyes
    That sounds pretty loose on the bearing tolerances for a fresh rebuild, even for a Chevy smallblock, never mind a Caddy.
    My sources put main journal clearance at 0.0026-0.003, and rod journal clearance at 0.0005-0.0028. I'd shoot for the very bottom edge of the spec and have a nice tight motor. Well, maybe not the super-tight end on the rods, that is REALLY tight.
    Has the crank been turned by your machinist? If so, I'd start finding a new one. Those are tolarances like you might see on a dirt track motor, and some machinists aren't that good at keeping street and race motors straight, or knowing what to do differently between the two.
    To answer some of your initial questions:
    Any auto parts store will have rebuild kits. They're all pretty much the same. If you haven't already, buy the book: Rochester Carburetors by Doug Roe. It's a must-have.
    The plastic clips might be harder. I'd try a CSK (checker/schucks/kragen) in their "Help!" section. Lots of little hard-to-find parts. Bring a broken example of your old clips to help you match. Often you will find a part that will accomplish the same thing, but looks a little different, so might not be 100% coucourse correct.
    Oh, and if you are looking for parts online, also try www.rockauto.com Really good most of the time.

    yeah im past most of that. I was using the shop manual as well and thats why i brought this up. The manual gives such a broad clearance range though... I let the machinist purchase all of the proper undersizings. I will call and ask him about it.

    Although to some research i have been doing it is my understanding that anything less than .002 is pretty borderline to spinning bearings... .0025 is good but everything has to be perfect and .003 is about right. The tightest was my thrust bearing. Also a couple of rebuilders told me that was a perfectly acceptable allowance... perhaps a difference of opinion? I will call the machinist regardless.

  8. #23
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    Re: At least it can roll!

    The factory does set a rather broad tolerance because even Cadillacs were assembled on an assembley line and you just can't stop production to get one rod journal just a tiny bit tighter... For an aftermarket rebuild like this, I'd try to get just a bit better.

    When you say rebuilders, I've heard of rebuilding outfits boring just those cylinders that NEED it, and just hone the rest. Most outfits make their money on quantity, not quality. If it is in spec, they aren't going to question it.
    Obviously I don't know who you are dealing with though, but I might start calling a few machine shops. Find some local car clubs and see who they use.
    I don't see why any machine shop would think it risky at all to set up a motor right near the tight side of factory spec. Heck, in Smokey Yunicks book, he reccomends 0.0027-0.0028 clearance, and that's on circle-track motors that will be turning twice as fast as your Caddy!

  9. #24
    JTraik is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: At least it can roll!

    Quote Originally Posted by BluEyes

    When you say rebuilders, I've heard of rebuilding outfits boring just those cylinders that NEED it, and just hone the rest. Most outfits make their money on quantity, not quality. If it is in spec, they aren't going to question it.
    Obviously I don't know who you are dealing with though, but I might start calling a few machine shops. Find some local car clubs and see who they use.
    I don't see why any machine shop would think it risky at all to set up a motor right near the tight side of factory spec. Heck, in Smokey Yunicks book, he reccomends 0.0027-0.0028 clearance, and that's on circle-track motors that will be turning twice as fast as your Caddy!
    Well by rebuilders i meant people i know personally that have rebuilt motors and are much older and wiser than myself. The block was bored and oversized KB pistons were purchased and I gave them to the machinist so he could size everything up OK.

    Also like i said before the journals are identical all the way down with a slight variation on the thrust. A precise job, but maybe not too accurate. Im going to figure this out before i start slapping everything else on.

    BTW im using Clevite 77's.

  10. #25
    JTraik is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: At least it can roll!

    I just talked to the machinist. He pulled out the his Clevite bearing reference guide which showed a .000xx - .0033 clearance range for my 472. He said for such large main journals @ 3-1/4" That the .0029ish clearance is right on.

    I stressed the point of the shop manual saying otherwise, but the Clevites supposedly are more suited for a slightly larger clearance. Im happy... the crank is on with assembly lube and it freely moves but is very tight and moves slowly with no binding whatsoever.

    Anyone have any RTV tricks for the rearmain seal? I havent applied any yet but i was thinking maybe a little at the two tips of each halve?

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