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500, 472, 425, 368 Discussion, coolant? how? noob to old cars.. in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; I thought that removing the thermostat was bad because the moving coolant never stayed in the block long enough to ...
  1. #16
    Aaron J Williams's Avatar
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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    I thought that removing the thermostat was bad because the moving coolant never stayed in the block long enough to have effective heat transfer thus causing the engine to overheat. Am I wrong?

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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    Man I hate it when people say "coolant needs to move slow so the heat has time to transfer." Basic physics dictates otherwise.

  3. #18
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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    Ok, so I don't know what i'm talking about, that's why i'm here, to learn from you. BTW, if coolant doesn't need to stay in the block for any time before moving on , why do they put thermostats in engines anyway?

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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    It's a very common misconception... read bbobs post here

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...=heat+transfer

    it should help clear things up.

  5. #20
    bryan1970 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    i think that the theory one not stat is wrong. basic physics and logic seem to say other wise from my point of view. if the coolant is moving too fast then it just can't absorb as much heat as if it were moving slower. the shorted the time the coolant is in a hot head the less time it will be able to get hot thus not transferring the heat from the block or head or what have you. it'd be just like if you had a hot stove and put a pot on the burner for only a second. the pot would bes till cool enough to touch but if you left it on there for 5 mins you burn your hand if you touched it. and besides they make restricters made to run in race cars to restrict the coolant flow to help slow it down. and if they didn't work they wouldn't sell them.

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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    Quote Originally Posted by bryan1970
    i think that the theory one not stat is wrong. basic physics and logic seem to say other wise from my point of view. if the coolant is moving too fast then it just can't absorb as much heat as if it were moving slower. the shorted the time the coolant is in a hot head the less time it will be able to get hot thus not transferring the heat from the block or head or what have you. it'd be just like if you had a hot stove and put a pot on the burner for only a second. the pot would bes till cool enough to touch but if you left it on there for 5 mins you burn your hand if you touched it. and besides they make restricters made to run in race cars to restrict the coolant flow to help slow it down. and if they didn't work they wouldn't sell them.
    Going with your analogy... if you stick one pot of water on for ten minutes, it will raise 50 degrees. But if you stick ten pots on for one minute at a time the overall heat transfer will be greater.

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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    Thermostats serve two purposes. First, and most important, is maintaining a consistent engine temperature. Without a 'stat, your engine would NEVER get up to temp in winter. Piston rings would never expand to seal properly, bearing tolerances would be loose, etc. Plus, tuning the car to run well would be a pain because the engine wants a different air/fuel mixture at different temps.
    Second, the 'stat builds additional coolant pressure in the block. This raises the boiling point a BUNCH and helps prevent steam pockets forming in hot places like around the exhaust ports and the combustion chambers.

    Check out this link - lots of info on cooling systems: http://www.grapeaperacing.com/GrapeA...ingsystems.pdf

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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    but your analogy somewhat prooves my point. if you had ten pots of water the mass of the water would be greater than just one pot. and you can't increase the ammount of water that is actually in the water passages. and with ten pots on the stove for one minute each they will be on the stove longer overall than just the one pot for 5 mins. meaning that it would take longer for an engine to get rid of the same amount of heat with out a stat. thus prooving that it takes longer for 10 pots of water to carry away more heat than just the one pot. i see your point that the each of the ten pots would be on the stove for less ammount of time and would carry away less heat per pot. but why have ten pots of water do the same job that just one pot is capable of doing?

    i don't know if an agreement can ever be reached with this argument, we may just have to agree to disagree. it's just that from personal experience i ahve found that running an engine with a stat is better than with out. plus i asked a friend that used to build race engines for 20 years, engines for stock cars which have to be able to keep cool for way longer than jsut a 1/4, and he aslo agrees that althougha thermostat isn't needed the restriction of the stat is a must.

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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    You're forgetting that it is a closed system though. Whatever flowrate there is through the radiator is the same as the flowrate through the engine.

    So, if the flowrate is slow "to let the water stay in the radiator long enough to cool down" it also stays in the engine longer, getting that much hotter.
    Now, crank the flowrate up - the water is in the radiator for less time, so it doesn't have as much time to give up heat, but it is also in the engine for less time, so picks up less heat.
    Yes, I know right now you're saying "but it is moving less heat out then". No - it is moving less heat per unit volume of water. Less heat per quart, or per gallon, etc. BUT, the higher flowrate of the faster moving system makes up for that by moving more gallons per minute.

    The reason your engine runs better with a thermostat IS because of the restriction, but not because it slows the water down. Read that PDF - the restriction causes extra coolant pressure in the block.
    Without the extra pressure, you are actually boiling the water in the heads. Once you've boiled the water and created steam pockets, you get hot spots in the engine because steam doesn't cool worth beans. An engine that isn't an even temperature doesn't run as well because you can't tune it properly.

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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    Using water won't rust the cooling system, as long as it is distilled. Tap will cause corrosion, but that is why you mainly waint to mix your coolant with distilled water.

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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    Quote Originally Posted by terrible one
    Using water won't rust the cooling system, as long as it is distilled. Tap will cause corrosion, but that is why you mainly waint to mix your coolant with distilled water.
    I'm not sure I buy that. The reason for distilled is that you won't get mineral deposits, aka "scale" buildup that could ruin the cooling system.

    On a molecular level, the oxygen in water (H H O), is what causes the oxidizing.

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    Re: coolant? how? noob to old cars..

    If you don't mind replacing the headgaskets often, then use plain or distilled water in lieu of coolant/distilled 50/50.

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