Replacing lifters in a 472
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500, 472, 425, 368 Discussion, Replacing lifters in a 472 in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; Hi all. I have a 68 Deville/stock engine with 99k that I suspect has a collapsed or failed lifter. I ...
  1. #1
    jukelemon is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Replacing lifters in a 472

    Hi all.

    I have a 68 Deville/stock engine with 99k that I suspect has a collapsed or failed lifter. I could be lucky and it not be that and just a rocker assembly issue but I don't think so.

    I have read and searched several posts on replacement and I have heard 2 different things as far as the How (or maybe I just misunderstood.

    Does the intake have to be removed to replace or at least get to/inspect/clean the lifters?

    If cleaning does not resolve the issue, what brand do you recommend?

    Thanks all.

    Jason

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  3. #2
    jukelemon is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    No one?

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    deVille33 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    If at all possible, try locating some from a GM parts distributor. I used to have good parts men on the counters of some of the dealerships, but, I find they have all retired or moved on and their replacements refuse to do any research to locate what I need. With aftermarket parts, one has to be careful. I used to rely on Crane for most applications relating to cam and valve train. I am unsure of their products concerning Cadillac, because they had limited parts listed for Cadillac. I would try MTS which specializes in Cadillac engine parts.

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    jukelemon is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    OK. Thanks for the advice.

    So, from what I have read in my FSM, the intake comes off. Yes?

    JL

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    deVille33 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    Oh, yes.

  7. #6
    The Ape Man's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    Intake has to come off. Expect some fun with varnish on parts of lifters that don't see friction. A lot of up and down motion and some panther piss carbonator cleaner helps.

    Read up on break in lube for cams and lifters. I know you are keeping the old cam but new lifters benefit from proper startup.

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    Sponson is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    I changed the lifters on my 69. AC compressor has to be moved to the side, carb comes off, intake comes off, valve covers come off, then loosen rockers, pull out the pushrods, then pull out the lifters..... hoping that the come out easily. Usually they do, but if you had significant wear they could be a little stubborn. The good thing is that their is no valve adjustment when you put it all back together. I changed mine in a day. Break them in properly by running the engine at ~2000 rpm for about 15 minutes (car in park, not driving around). Thing about all this, is, is you cam shaft worn? Changin it requires all of the above, plus a lot more work - remove AC and engine radiators, front grill, take off water pump, timing cover, timing chain/sprocket, distributor, and a few other things. Much more work than just changing lifters.

  9. #8
    jukelemon is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    Hi all.

    Well, got everything removed. Good god that intake is heavy..

    Any way, before I removed everything I ran the car without the Valve covers. Very good oil flow to Rocker arms.

    There is little to no crud anywhere. Rockers LOOKED great. But here is what I noticed.

    On some of the rocker arms and when both intake and exhaust were closed, the rocker had a lot of wiggle. Some didn't have much at all and some had quite a bit.

    No broken retainers.

    I could also spin the PR's very easily. I would have expected more preload - they could not have leaked down that much.

    Also, when I pulled the lifters, I tried to compress them. No way. They were certainly still loaded a great deal.

    So, I went ahead and pulled the intake and all the lifters/PR's. Lifters came out like butter. 0 issues.

    Tore into a few lifters..

    First off, these are not the original. There is no check ball. These have like a cap/valve on the top instead of a ball. And they look brand new. 0 wear and spring like I would think they should. Extremely clean.

    So, now I am thinking my lifters are actually in good shape and it is my rocker assemble that is creating the tap?

    Should there be any movement at all in the Rockers? I mean I can turn some of them side to side ~ 1-2mm..maybe more. I am guessing. Some I cannot move at all.

    I think my cam is in good shape. It only has 99k miles and given that I have yet to see any sludge/grime anywhere I think it was well taken care of.

    This tap tap or click click is driving me nuts.

    I only want to do this once and I do not plan to power house this engine.

    New Rocker Assembly with PR's?

    Thanks all.

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    deVille33 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    Take a good look at the rockers and the shaft and the tops of the valve stems. If the stems are rounded and the related rocker shows wear on the slipper side, you have insufficient oiling in that area. You can also have wear on the shaft and related rocker fulcrum surface. Check the lifter faces and make sure if you reuse them, they go back in the same lifter bore they came from. You can also remove the distributor and use a drill motor to turn the pump to visibly observe the oiling to the shafts more closely. A broken distributor body with the shaft sans drive gear works for this. This is about all you can do at this point without further dismantling the engine. Oh, yes check around for signs of broken valve seals. You can replace them at this point easier with everything exposed.

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    jukelemon is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    Thanks.

    I checked the oiling and man there is 0 issues there. Tons coming up and into each rocker. So much that I had a nice mess on the ground from the oil coming out the rocker area.

    I have each and every lifter labeled to their place along with the Rockers. Every lifter I have had apart (half now) has looked new. Nothing has collapsed and all surfaces look great.

    There is wear on the rockers both where the PR's and Valves rest. Nice shiny D pattern on each Rocker. But I would expect that as these are the originals.

    No broken tabs. Shafts show wear but again, what I would expect after 99k miles.

    I think I am going to get a new set of rockers and tabs. I don't think I need anything else at this point unless I am really missing something.

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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    I can't tell you if just changing the lifters will make the tick go away. I can only tell you I've torn a few of these engines down and have not run into worn cams or rockers worn enough to make any noise.

    The valve springs are so wimpy and the cam profile is mild. Parts last. Cam is also very tough.

    Not the same as tearing into a Chevy, Pontiac or Buke. Those wear out valvetrain parts faster. Dunno about Olds.

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    deVille33 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    Chevy and Pontiac were the worse when it came to valve train wear. Buick, Olds, not so bad. The Cadillac engines had very little lift to the cams. The valve springs rarely fatigue, due to this, but if an engine was overheated, it may cause the springs to lose proper tension. Your descriptions do not support this.

  14. #13
    jukelemon is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    Thanks.

    Let me ask this..

    Every lifter that I took out was still rock hard/could not be manually depressed. I would have thought if I had a collapsed lifter that I would have found a less rigid one. Am I off on that?

    Maybe I did have a bad lifter and they just looked good?

    I knows this...at some point they were replaced.

    Cam looks good from what I can see. No burns. Irregularities that I can see.

    I ordered a set of new lifters. Might as well since I am in here. Found them at a closeout for a 1.90 a piece. Sealed Power. Amazon wanted 4.00 a piece as well as my local shops.

    Good to hear about the cam and springs. I like things that don't wear out.

    I am getting new rockers/T's and lifters. Cheap insurance while it is tore down this far.

    Do you all fill your lifters prior to start? I have heard both Yes and No.

    Thanks.

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    The Ape Man's Avatar
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    I did once have a 500 that always ticked for a few seconds. Longer time between restarts, longer tick. It always went away by 30 seconds. This was a low miles engine.

    Finally changed lifters. That fixed my problem. I couldn't tell anything was wrong when pulling it apart.

    I used to drown the lifters in fresh oil overnight at least. Dunno if it was any more effective than a rain dance.

    Manufactures should have plenty of advice on this.

  16. #15
    jukelemon is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Replacing lifters in a 472

    Yeah, my lifter noise does not go away unless I am above ~2500 RPM. made me think oiling at first but it is damn strong at idle as I looked and reported above.

    Maybe there are a few lifters that are bad and just will not hold their pressure until increased oil flow as opposed to the others that did.

    We shall see.

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