472/500 Application Questions

[350350]

Hello All! I'm new to the board, but only somewhat new to the King of Rats. Over the years I've contemplated putting one in everything from a G-Body to a Fiero. (I still swear it could be done in a Fiero, but everyone thought I was nuts...) So I am somewhat familiar with what years are best to hunt and such, but might need some brushup if I get to do a 472/500 project soon.

What I am wondering here is if anyone is running a 472/500 with a 700R4 behind it, and where you got the 700R4 that would hold up to a mildly (cam, intake, and carb on a stock '69 or '70 472/500) built Caddy in a 4500-5000 pound vehicle.

I currently have two vehicles that I can't decide between which to put the Caddy in. I daily drive a mint '78 Bonneville that has adequate power, but I'm not used to *only* adequate power and want something that runs. But it gets about 18mpg now and like I said it's my Daily Driver. The other option is to put the Caddy in my '77 K5 4x4 Blazer that is lifted with 35" tires, and use the very healthy 350 that is currently in it to liven up the Bonneville without needing to put gas in it every day. I mostly use the K5 as a truck, so it may go a month or more at a time without being driven, but when I DO drive it, I use it on the trails and the power would be put to good use. I'm torn because I'd love to build a Caddy Motor but if I went to the trouble I sure would like to enjoy it every day...

Any advice would be greatly appreciated...

From what I recall, '69 and '70 are the best years to get motors, and after that the hp numbers begin to fall due to smogging. It's been a while since I looked into this, so please correct me if I'm wrong!

[350350]

I'm new to the area I currently live in, and just today started looking for motors in the local yards. My third call nabbed me a 472 in a '69 El Dorado that has (supposedly) only 60,000 miles on it. $450 for the motor and basically everything else in the engine bay. He said he also has others that are basically cores that are more like $200. This one he claims runs good enough to drop in and go!

I thought I would pay $300 for a rebuildable high-mileage core. $450 for a good-running low-mileage motor sounds pretty good, although in all reality at the least a good ring job and cam, intake, and a good carb couldn't hurt it either. Now I need to go look up the torque numbers on this motor and take a guess at how long it would take for it to shred my stock TH350 and 7.5" rear end that's behind a 4500 pound car with 255/60-15 tires...

[bryan1970]

at one time i also wondered about a 700r4 behind my caddy. of course it won't bolt right on with out an adaptor plate of some kind. but GM did make 200r4 with the BOP bell housing. however the stock 200 is considerably a lot weaker than a stock 700. but i found guys on turbobuick.com that had some pretty impresive numbers turning a built 200.

[350350]

Originally Posted by bryan1970

at one time i also wondered about a 700r4 behind my caddy. of course it won't bolt right on with out an adaptor plate of some kind. but GM did make 200r4 with the BOP bell housing. however the stock 200 is considerably a lot weaker than a stock 700. but i found guys on turbobuick.com that had some pretty impresive numbers turning a built 200.

The adapter is less than $75 from Summit I think. But I'm pretty sure you could get a 700R4 with the BOP pattern... The trucks that came with the Olds-based diesel should have had a 700R4 with the BOP pattern, shouldn't they??? I have a Truck forum I vist often, I'll post there and get back here with an answer.

[350350]

Originally Posted by bryan1970

at one time i also wondered about a 700r4 behind my caddy. of course it won't bolt right on with out an adaptor plate of some kind. but GM did make 200r4 with the BOP bell housing. however the stock 200 is considerably a lot weaker than a stock 700. but i found guys on turbobuick.com that had some pretty impresive numbers turning a built 200.

Also though, you would be utterly amazed at the amount of power, as you suggested from the turbo Buicks, that a 200R4 will take when properly built. The aftermarket stepped up a lot sooner for those applications because there was a demand sooner, and that's why the 700R4's didn't get hopped up until later.

I have run 700R4's behind a 400hp 406 Chevy and many abusive 300hp small blocks. I also ran a 275hp V8 TPI S10 with a 700R4 behind it and 30x9.50-15 Mud Tires with a rear locker for 7 years of abuse with no problems. I've had great luck with 700R4's and have good confidence that they would hold up to a Caddy, mostly because if you build your car right, the tires are going to be the weak link anyway, so instead of breaking things, you just spin tires.

I Love the 700R4's because of their gear spacing and overdrive. They eat relatively little horsepower, somewhere between a TH350 and a TH400, and they'll fit in just about anything. I had one in a '65 AMC Rambler!!!

[350350]

OK, what I've learned so far is that the 5.7L Diesel was based on the Olds 350 Block, but it was old enough that it was before the 700R4 days. The 6.2L Diesel that replaced it was a 'Clean Slate' design, and therefore used the standard chevrolet bell housing bolt pattern. So far, no evidence that there were ever 700R4's made from the factory with the BOP pattern. One guy said that some 700R4's came with the universal bolt pattern, which I can believe since there were so many oddball engines like the Olds 307 and others that were used well into the 700R4 days that I can't imagine that one or two of them didn't make it into a 700R4 application. However, it certainly looks like the odds of finding one will be slip to none if they do exist at all!!!

Anyone???

[Spyder]

the 5.7 diesel was NOT based on the olds 350...totally different design. Bbob posted quite a bit about this a while back...actually some pretty interesting reading, if you've got a little bit of time to kill in searching for and reading it. I found it all soon after I bought a '78 Olds 88 with the diesel as a temp car while replacing my northstar, and I loved the hell out of it, until the tranny blew up on me.

[lux hauler]

Kinda off topic but......there's an article in the April 2005 issue of Car Craft magazine about building a 200-4R. The article is titled The Forgotten Overdrive....Bulletproofing a TH200-4R Automatic. Might be worth picking up if you think you might consider building a 200-4R.

[350350]

Originally Posted by Spyder

the 5.7 diesel was NOT based on the olds 350...totally different design. Bbob posted quite a bit about this a while back...actually some pretty interesting reading, if you've got a little bit of time to kill in searching for and reading it. I found it all soon after I bought a '78 Olds 88 with the diesel as a temp car while replacing my northstar, and I loved the hell out of it, until the tranny blew up on me.

So which bolt pattern did it have???

I'll do some searching and reading. I'm going to call the tranny guy that has built several bulletproof 700R4's for me in the past and ask him about this too and see what I can find out.

[350350]

Originally Posted by lux hauler

Kinda off topic but......there's an article in the April 2005 issue of Car Craft magazine about building a 200-4R. The article is titled The Forgotten Overdrive....Bulletproofing a TH200-4R Automatic. Might be worth picking up if you think you might consider building a 200-4R.

I'm 'That Guy' that's not afraid to try things that others are afraid of. The thought of putting a 200 behind a Caddy with mind-bending torque scares the hell out of me, but I'll pick up the article, and I know the turbo regals put out some serious torque numbers, so...

[lux hauler]

Originally Posted by 350350

I'm 'That Guy' that's not afraid to try things that others are afraid of. The thought of putting a 200 behind a Caddy with mind-bending torque scares the hell out of me, but I'll pick up the article, and I know the turbo regals put out some serious torque numbers, so...

I'd like to use the 200-4R that's in my '84 Coupe (that's what I'm putting my mild, .060 over 500 in) but I don't want to spend the money to build the trans to last. I think I'll just stick with a turbo 400.
By the way....as far as I know all 700-R4's were Chevy bolt pattern cases and the 200-4R's were all "multi fit" cases.....both Chevy and BOP-C (the "C" being Cadillac ).

[350350]

Here's my NEW dilemma! Tonight as I pulled out of the back of the Food Lion (local grocery store) parking lot, I spyed an old Cadillac, what I believe a Coupe DeVille, sitting behind an old shed. It appears to be hidden there, assuming they got tired of people stopping and trying to buy it. The car is complete and all 4 tires even have air, but there are a few weeds grown up around it.

What I need help is identifying what year this beast is and what motor it has, and whether it is worth knocking on the door and likely getting the door slammed in my face, although I am one smooth, fine gentleman when it comes to knocking doors to purchase old vehicles that are sitting about, and my track record is pretty good.

I believe it is of the early '70's vintage. Where can I go to look at some others to identify the year? I can't get close enough (without trespassing, which I NEVER do without talking to teh owner first...) to get a good close look at the fine details, but it has 4 horizontal headlights, each set with a vertical parking light separating the two on that side. Kind of like this:
_____________
|0|0------0|0|

Where do I go to find the pictures on the site? Are there member's rides listed by year???

Thanks,
Paul

[bryan1970]

i know what years your talking about i think it is like 73-76 that are like that maybe even 72. iono for sure. but i think in those yeasr they did infact put the 500 in the deville. a couple places you could go, which is where i do some similar research, is ebay and car domain. car domain is sometimes better becasue the cars are always on there they don't get sold and taken off the website. but it is worth checking out.

[bryan1970]

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/717448

here is a picture of what i think you are talking about and i think i was wrong about the yeasr i think it was like 71-74 maybe

[davesdeville]

That would be a 71-73 with a 472.