472, how to boost fuel economy? - Page 9
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 LastLast
Results 121 to 135 of 162
Like Tree31Likes
500, 472, 425, 368 Discussion, 472, how to boost fuel economy? in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; ...
  1. #121
    cadchris's Avatar
    cadchris is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac 91 Bro-Ham, 91 Yello-dorado
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    44
    Posts
    233

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    Today, I got an e-mail from:

    Nic Baetslé
    Director of Sales European Distributors
    CRC Industries Europe
    Nic Baetslé (Nic.Baetsle@crcind.com)


    He said "Yes" their products are available in Finland.....that's good.

    He said if you need to find these specific products, contact Mr.Kaunismaki (Hannu.Kaunismaeki@crcind.com). Reference my name and Nic and tell him how big this problem is and many people end up breaking the distributor. Tell him that the penetrant oil needs to get down the length of the distributor, and they might even give you FREE SAMPLES of different products to try! Or just ask them for some stuff to try so you can do a write up on the forum about it......they like free advertising. Sometimes the representatives give out free samples. I'll send them an e-mail to see if they'll give you some products.

    Try the penetrant oil or ATF/Acetone mixture for a week and drive it around or whatever penetrant oil you have. Spray it constantly when the engine is cold, warm, at the stop light in traffic get out and spray it again!

    I would only warm the engine up for a while by running it. Don't use a propane/burner torch yet. Maybe pack ice around the upper portion of the distributor housing in a cloth bag with zip ties or a some kind of freeze pack tied to the distributor just too keep it cool and from getting heat soaked too much. This will allow the freeze spray to work to freeze the entire distributor quicker. I would then really consider blasting that distributor base/shaft area under the distributor with a can of 134a Freon to quickly drop the core temperature of the distributor housing shaft and keep spraying the penetrant oil also while doing this.

    You want to shock cool/freeze that aluminum shaft fast and the aluminum should quickly conduct the freezing action down the length of the shaft and maybe carry the penetrant oil down also, if it doesn't freeze and thicken the penetrant oil first. Hopefully this will shrink that aluminum slightly since aluminum does have a high thermal expansion rate over iron....see chart:
    http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/li...ents-d_95.html

    Maybe try the penetrant oil for a week driving around, then on a cool engine, freeze the distributor first without heating anything...along with a pipe wrench attached to the distributor body to gently twist the distributor back and forth....you might get lucky.

    Or do all of the above from what I posted previously and have a little fun.

    Maybe a smaller version of an electric hammer like this one. You can usually rent these:
    http://www.directindustry.com/prod/h...9-1119950.html

    A cheep Chinese junk one would be better and less powerful. All you want is shock/vibration and not cut/crack that distributor in 2 pieces!

    I'm also thinking which one would give more of a solid harmonic shock vibration. I think electric would vs. air hammer.....not sure. You would have to try it on a piece of solid metal or somewhere on the engine block and feel the metal with your hand for sharp harmonic vibrations. Would be interesting if you could fabricate something to attach a cheep electric impact wrench that has low toque output and attach it to that distributor housing to also send a twisting shock vibration down the shaft. They even make 12v car impact wrenches. I just don't know how to make a solid attachment to the body of the distributor unless you made that tool that one person made in the link I posted above. But that could also create a stress crack in the bottom of the housing using an electric or air impact wrench..a lot to think about!

    I will also be speaking to a chemist from Permatex next week and meeting with the local Representative. I got "rust problems too"!
    I have body rust since my poor Fleetwood sat by the ocean for a few years. I used their Rust Dissolver Navel Jelly that made a mess because I accidentally let it dry, now we have to figure out how to break down the dried "Jelly" substance chemically.

    I'm going to ask the chemist about your problem, and I'm wondering if some form of acid could dissolve the rust/corrosion and wick down the shaft. I don't think HCL or (Muriatic Acid) would be right because it would leave behind chlorine ions which would get into the iron and cause more rust. Not phosphoric because it would leave a coating of ferric phosphate, FePO4......HF and Nitric Acids are pretty dangerous but should work, Sulfuric Acid is battery acid...I wonder if that could break the bond between the iron block and aluminum.........I'm just thinking here.......

    The penetrants, including DEEP-Freezing are indeed safer along with some form shock treatment. I could use a little of that!

    As far as the pinging. We discussed that somewhere here! Lean condition vacuum leak sucking air past the carb. or carb shafts worn or other carb problems, lean secondary circuit/ jets, timing too advanced/vacuum advance, combustion chamber carbon, hot oil getting past the rings/valves "ring pack seized up" and needs soaked. Coolant Temps too high and stuck thermostat, radiator clogged and internal flow problems, clogged cooling jackets which would require a hot acid or inorganic acid flush.

    What AC Delco Spark Plug# number did you install?

    Make sure you have a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and put on a new 16lb radiator cap. NOT the one with a red lever pressure relief. A STANT Engineer told me they are not as accurate as a regular cap and have a wider range and fail easily. You want to make sure you have pressure to raise the boiling point of your coolant so not to boil it in the cooling jacket which will cause detonation and hot spots in the cylinder.

    Do you have any organic scale or rust in the cooling system? The cooling system was also probably neglected by the former owner. I had to do a Google of this threads title to quickly find where I posted about EVANS COOLANT which you could benefit from running a lot of ignition advance and lean fuel curve but the cooling jackets need to be able to transfer the heat out of the heads for the EVANS to work. I found the old archived webpages with years of great articles on EVANS. I also talked to them and they have a European site:
    http://evanscoolants.co.uk/

    But even their tech. guy agrees with me that the old site and tech info is much better than the new consumer friendly info. I will post all those links soon back in post #58.


    Anyway, I know a lot about how to treat each type of cooling system contamination with industrial products. I'm actually going to use a totally safe product that is an organic calcium scale remover for a 28 story hi-rise commercial building's water cooling tower scale problem because the water cooled a/c condensors have internal scale buildup creating a barrier and stopping liquid thermal heat transfer to cool the hot high side refrigerant tube. A BIG PROBLEM with "calcium based scale" which has built up on the pipes and causing slow transfer of heat out of the water just like a cars cooling jacket.

    This is what were going to use which is a very unique non-acid that is only made by this company for the U.S market and safe for copper condensor tubes and only calcium organic scale and not rust...I wonder if this product or something similar is available in Finland!:
    http://www.nucalgon.com/products/wat...prettyPhoto/0/

    Or here's a very good older automotive aggressive product here in the U.S.::: "Permatex® Heavy Duty Radiator Cleaner" which is Hydrochloric Acid based:
    http://www.permatex.com/products/pro...cleaner-detail

    If you use this, it will most likely uncover leaks. Bypass the heater core when running this stuff, then if you leak somewhere else in the system, use a "Sodium Silicate" based product that creates a very strong seal like:
    http://www.irontite.com/

    http://www.crcindustries.com/files/N...20Tutorial.pdf

    http://www.moroso.com/catalog/catego...?catcode=22005

    These are permanant sealers that requires all anti freeze to be flushed out, circulate the sealer, then drain and allow to dry. Or there is always the powered GM/Bars Leak dry tabs for small radiator leaks.

    GM's old aggressive discontinued radiator flush/procedure was a 2 stage powered product in a can made for GM by Prestone #AS100. It was used many years ago for rusted cooling systems and then for the Dex-Cool sludge problems... It is a 2 part powder. 1 side of the can had Oxalic Acid (Wood Bleach) found at Hardware Store, and the other side of the can had Sodium Carbonate neutralizer (Arm & Hammer Washing Soda) found at Grocery Story by the laundry detergents. Its a powerful flush vs. what is on the market at the Autoparts stores:

    If you do a search on the internet, there are many forums that talk about these old products and GM's Procedure. Here is only a few of many forums that talk about it. The Corvette guys also have a lot of discussion about it

    http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f107/d...orange-413018/

    http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/...-question.html

    Do a search on "GM bulletin tsb 99-06-02-012D"

    Tech Procedure:
    http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f31/dexcool-2659/

    Shorter Version of TSB:
    http://www.supramania.com/forums/sho...-neutralized..


    This is why I always advocte to get a motor totally cleaned out before any performance mods......


    I know.....another long post.
    lacville78 and lacville78 like this.

  2. #122
    cadchris's Avatar
    cadchris is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac 91 Bro-Ham, 91 Yello-dorado
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    44
    Posts
    233

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    We have this stuff here in the U.S. and is availbable in Europe. You probably heard about it. "WURTH Rost Off ICE" Many of the Euro Garages here use these products.

    http://www.wurth.co.uk/data/productdocuments/070186.pdf

    http://www.wurth.co.uk/technical-che...-off-ice-400ml

    WURTH USA:
    http://www.wurthusa.com/web/en/websi...lubricants.php

    230 pg. Catalog of specialty chemicals: Some I recognize from other mfgs. like Stabilant 22 electrical conductive contact liquid:
    http://www.wurthusa.com/web/media/do...ls_Nov2012.pdf

    You will need a few cans of these types of products in order to super chill the entire length of the distributor shaft which is why I said to use 134a Refrigerant/Freon first with some other penetrating oil in addition to using some of these penetrating oil products .

  3. #123
    cadchris's Avatar
    cadchris is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac 91 Bro-Ham, 91 Yello-dorado
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    44
    Posts
    233

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    3dfx.

    Hold off heating or freezing anything!

    Especially DO NOT do both at the same time!

    I've been thinking about this more especially the thermal expansion rates of each metal and the possibility of them not being completely isolated from each other from a corrosional bond so its really bothering me now......



    I have posted this info on an Engineering Metallurgy Forum and are discussing it with a metallurgist and will post the info and link soon.

    Regards,
    Chris

  4. #124
    outsider is online now Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 1987 Brougham D'Eligance, 1969 Calais Sedan, 1995 FWB
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    South Portland, Maine, United
    Age
    31
    Posts
    3,563

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    My distributor was stuck on my 69's 472. I sprayed it with PB Blaster every day (basically 2 whole cans) and then tapped on it with a chunk of wood and a hammer. After a long while it finally started to move a little. I then put a large adjustable wrench on the distributor (there's a square part on the head where the cap clips on to.) and was able to turn it. It's still really tight but it's loosening up!

    Good luck.

  5. #125
    cadchris's Avatar
    cadchris is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac 91 Bro-Ham, 91 Yello-dorado
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    44
    Posts
    233

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    Outsider,

    Good to hear you had success,

    Where on the your distributor did you see the problem was? Under the hold down flange of the distributor body, or boar ring under the hold down collar or on the middle bore collar of the distributor or the last bore collar down by the gear?

    As seen here: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/more...800&cc=1025367

    Is this what a 472/500 Distributor looks like?

    Was is it corrosion, galling, or hardened carbon or all 3 causing the problem on yours?

    Thanks,
    Chris

  6. #126
    3dfx is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): Coupe de ville 1969
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Age
    29
    Posts
    59
    Thread Starter

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    We have this stuff here in the U.S. and is availbable in Europe. You probably heard about it. "WURTH Rost Off ICE" Many of the Euro Garages here use these products.
    I have seen those bottles in many stores, even in small supermarkets. I should try one of those.

    He said if you need to find these specific products, contact Mr.Kaunismaki (Hannu.Kaunismaeki@crcind.com). Reference my name and Nic and tell him how big this problem is and many people end up breaking the distributor. Tell him that the penetrant oil needs to get down the length of the distributor, and they might even give you FREE SAMPLES of different products to try! Or just ask them for some stuff to try so you can do a write up on the forum about it......they like free advertising. Sometimes the representatives give out free samples. I'll send them an e-mail to see if they'll give you some products.
    I should contact Mr. Kaunismäki some day and tell him about distributors jamming problems and how great it would be for old car hobbyists if we can find some solution for these jamming distributors.

    Well, this distributor problem can wait a little, I have some problems with my propeller shaft. Universal joints in front started to make some bigger "clap clap clap" noise than before and both of my front universal joints were bad. I went under my car and started to push and pull that u-joint, it moved many millimeters up and down, making this "clap clap clap" noise. I have new u-joints waiting for installation and hopefully I can instal them tomorrow. If I can't install them tomorrow, I will instal them in the weekend. One of my friends has gas welding systems and with those I can get some heat to bolts. They were pretty stuck when I dried to open them today. Chaging u-joints is urgent. It can ruin my tranny, driveshaft and rear axle if that u-joint gets destroyed.

    Coolant Temps too high and stuck thermostat, radiator clogged and internal flow problems, clogged cooling jackets which would require a hot acid or inorganic acid flush.
    This car has one big con. It doesn't have a engine temperature meter. With that I could easily see if my thermostat is stuck. Maybe I should change it too and install a thermometer.

    What AC Delco Spark Plug# number did you install?
    I think they were basic black AC-Delco plugs. There was 44 or 45 in somewhere of its model number.

    Make sure you have a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and put on a new 16lb radiator cap.
    I bought a new cap in last summer. Old one leaked. Only problem is that those radiator caps in these cars are inch system sizes and all normal cars here have metric system sized radiator caps. So, the range of inch-sized radiator caps is poor in here. In last summer I would prefered too an radiator cap without pressure release lever. I couldn't find one easily, so I bought one with a lever. Im not sure if it's 16lb, I'll have to check that out too.

    Do you have any organic scale or rust in the cooling system? The cooling system was also probably neglected by the former owner.
    There was lots of rust in system. I emptied the system in last summer and flushed it many times with fresh water. It helped and now my coolant is pretty clean. I have some calcium in my system and It should be flushed with some chemicals. I have not dared to put any chemical in there because those often make radiator leak. Maybe I'll try those chemicals in fall, when I have whole winter time to look for new radiator if my old one starts to leak dramatically.

    o you have any organic scale or rust in the cooling system? The cooling system was also probably neglected by the former owner. I had to do a Google of this threads title to quickly find where I posted about EVANS COOLANT which you could benefit from running a lot of ignition advance and lean fuel curve but the cooling jackets need to be able to transfer the heat out of the heads for the EVANS to work. I found the old archived webpages with years of great articles on EVANS. I also talked to them and they have a European site: http://evanscoolants.co.uk/
    Im very interested about this coolant. They say in their websites that It will work in very low temperatures. This is extremely important. I don't want to wake up and see my cars engine block cracked because my coolant is frozen solid. I have to test myself about that low temperature protection. I will buy some Evans coolant and put it into can and take it into freezer and see what happened.

    I found this kind of product from Sweden: http://www.ec1.se/index2.html I think this is some kind of waterless coolant too? They got nice websites but there is no exact info about the product.

    This is why I always advocte to get a motor totally cleaned out before any performance mods......
    I agree. I think its waste of time and money to mod engines in bad condition.

  7. #127
    cadchris's Avatar
    cadchris is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac 91 Bro-Ham, 91 Yello-dorado
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    44
    Posts
    233

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    I also meant to say in order for the best fuel efficiency, the engine needs cleaned out too and tuned as best as possible before we start trying to make gains in fuel efficiency!


    I did ask Mr. Kaunismäki to kindly assist in this problem, but he stated it would be easier for you to find the products yourself, so it looks like CRC's marketing is not very consumer oriented in Europe nor do they need the exposure on this topic. I'm dissapointed that they wouldn't send you samples.

    Time for some of those "Finish Bad Words" to call him!!!!!


    I deal with factory representatives all the time in the U.S. and they always give away free stuff for me and others to try.

    Here's what he sent me by e-mail:

    This is the wrong product.......it's for freezing electronics semi conductors for diagnostics. He must not have understood or bothered to read my e-mail regarding the issue:
    http://www.motonet.fi/web/guest/muut...ylm%C3%A4spray

    And to use this product if you get the distributor out to prevent the corrosion again. I wished he would've helped more:
    http://www.motonet.fi/web/guest/muut...paa-keraaminen

    This is the European product I found on my own:
    http://www.crcind.com/wwwcrc/tds/CRC..._IND-25TDS.PDF

    You will just need a lot of it which is why I recommend using a can of 134a Freon along with a separate penetrating oil...........


    I think you will need a lot of freeze spray to "cold soak/freeze soak" it so the entire length of the distributor's housing's core temperature drops to contract the aluminum in the block bore.

    For now, wait until I get my questions answered by the Metallurgist Forum were I posted a few concerns with sub-freezing and heating of alloys.


    By the way; -50C. in Finland. Are you kidding me?!!!! That's -58F! You should've tried to remove that distributor during the winter! The iron and aluminum would've been equally deep freezed and the distributor would have probably popped out like a Popsicle! Which is a frozen treat!

    But then you would've lost the use of your hands for about a year!

    Anyway, try the Freeze Spray on the U-bolts!

    #1. Let us know exactly what plugs you used. Did all of your detonation/pre-ignition start after installing those plugs? When did this engine start pinging...recently, or did it ping last year when opening your secondaries?

    The 69' 472 calls for a AC Delco R44XLS which I'm surprised is an "extra long reach and extended tip" which is good to get that plug deep into the cylinder. See Delco CODE I.D. CHART:
    http://www.gonzomotorsports.com/?page_id=528

    The do make a hotter plug 45, 46. The colder plugs are 44, 43, 42.

    Were the old plugs oil fouled? What was the plug numbers that you removed?


    Good video from NGK. You want colder plugs to run lean mixtures to prevent detonation and pinging. The larger ceramic shell transfers more heat into the cooling jacket that may be clogged and coated on your engine preventing heat transfer out of the combustion chamber and into the head.

    But if you have oil entering the combustion chamber or rich mixture, the plug will foul and not self clean if too cold which is why then you would use a hotter plug but then the plug end will run hotter and could cause pinging and not pull heat out of the combustion chamber. 45 is the middle heat range for AC Delco Plugs.
    http://ngksparkplugs.com/tech_suppor...2.asp?mode=nml

    #2. Are you using a 50/50 mix of ethylene glycol coolant or have you checked the concentration and specific gravity with coolant hydrometer?

    I'm not sure how sensitive these big blocks are to boiling coolant in the heads cooling jackets to cause detonation which is why the correct cooling mix and pressure cap to raise the boiling point of the coolant is important, but detonation problem is most likely fuel, ignition, or carbon related or a combination of many problems.

    #3. Are you using organic acid technology (OAT) Dex-Cool or hybrid organic acid technology (HOAT) formulation like ZEREX anti-freeze coolant in your cooling system?

    Since you had so much contamination in the system, the cooling jackets certainly have a thick layer of rust/calcium build up which prevents heat transfer out of the head causing high combustion chamber temps., and a coolant gauge will not indicate this, but will show if the radiator or thermostat is not working correctly.....that's only 1 scenario.

    Yes, I've aggressively cleaned systems and always anticipated leaks, but I've always got these leaks sealed with the better multiple step cooling system sealants. I accidentally poked a huge hole in one of the radiator's core tubes removing my radiator fan on my Fleetwood. That was a huge hole/slice and too big for any cooling system sealants. So I bought the correct 2 part high temp. / high pressure epoxy I could find at the hardware store.

    Fixed it with no problem, and I ran every caustic cleaner through that radiator to clean my cooling system out really good,( using Muratic Acid HCL, Oxalic Acid, Sodium Carbonate, Baking Soda, TIDE Powdered Laundry Det., Cascade Dishwashing Machine Detergent.......can't remember what else I threw in there) then I drove on that radiator for a few months before changing to a better more efficient aluminum core radiator and the 2 part epoxy held with no problem. I can take a picture if any want to see it, MODINE Radiators used to be made really good! Only in the USA.

    #4. Does the 472/500 have block drains at the bottom like Chevy engines do? Yes they do..just found some info:
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ole-block.html

    YES... they do have coolant drain plugs as seen in these links. Most of the time, like on my 91 Fleetwood 305, I removed the coolant drain plugs and nothing came out. I stuck a screwdriver into the hole and pushed it around and broke up all the sediment then all kinds of rusty junk came out. I flushed the system while running and reving the motor with these plugs out and draining into a white plastic tub/ bucket until all the water was clear.
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ole-block.html


    Definitely want to remove those drain plugs if the Caddy's have them when flushing and running the engine.....you would be surprised at how much sediment gets trapped in the lower block and can't get flushed out any other way...sometimes pressure can do it...........

    I reviewed the "EC1 Coolant" site you posted........this is really not something you want to try. The site is does not have tech info, nor any history from what I could tell. Looks very suspicious to me.

    The new Evans U.S. site, and U.K. site is too fancy. I will post the old Evans site with 18 yrs of technical industry articles and test data. Very impressive info. and even their Tech guys said the same but have no say in the website design...... we had a very long conversation about it. For years, Evans was only marketed to industrial applications and for race cars, but over the past few years, the company has gone though major changes and is now concentrating on the consumer market which is why their website is now more consumer oriented marketing..................

    Here's some history about Evans Cooling: it was developed by Jack Evans who not only designed this specialized coolant but was an inventor and consultant to the U.S. factory automotive industry. Around the late 80's, he designed and patented a reverse cooling system and was hired by GM to solve some cooling problems. There is a very detailed chain of events that ocurred so I may have some of the history mixed up.

    Anyway, GM payed him a small fee to solve their problem with his patented design. Then one night, GM engineers broke into his development area, and took apart one of his test cars, reversed engineered the system, and stole his idea and put it into production on the LT1 Corvette Engine!

    Well, Jack Evans sued GM in 2 lawsuits for close to $1 Billion based on the production of LT1's and his loss in royalties. I read the legal intricacies of the lawsuit and it was amazing. He lost in Federal Court, then re-sued in State court where GM knew they were going to lose the case and gave up. They settled out of court after a 10 yrs of litigation. I heard Jack Evan's really made out. Prabably $300 million. At this time, members of the DuPont family were a minority shareholder in Evans Corp, and they were the one's behind the lawsuit to help Jack Evans keep his lawsuit going for years. Jack retired, and now DuPont is the majority shareholder of Evans Coolant. The company and product have a very good reputation. But they changed the old web-site, and Jack Evan's original open letter to the public outlining his story about what GM did has been taken off the site part of the settlement, but I think I found the old link.

    I sent an e-mail to the main Technical person I've talked to many times at Evans about what temps. NPG Coolant will freeze at. From what I remember him saying, Evans NPG ( Non-Aqueous Polypropylene Glycol) does not freeze but will get very thick. If it does manage to freeze, it will not expand like water and will not crack a block, nor does it expand or build pressure if the engine overheats.
    http://www.evanscooling.com/products/coolants/

    See 3:25 in this video:
    http://evanscoolants.co.uk/news/whee...onversion-./43

  8. #128
    3dfx is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): Coupe de ville 1969
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Age
    29
    Posts
    59
    Thread Starter

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    I did ask Mr. Kaunismäki to kindly assist in this problem, but he stated it would be easier for you to find the products yourself, so it looks like CRC's marketing is not very consumer oriented in Europe nor do they need the exposure on this topic. I'm dissapointed that they wouldn't send you samples.
    I expected something like this.

    You get nothing for free in here and asking things for free is strange here. Here nobody does it. If you want something, you'll have to pay for it.

    I think marketing in Finland is generally speaking different and less aggressive what you have in US. Good brands doesn't need advertising. Everyone (who would ever use CRC), know the CRC brand and they buy CRC products. I think marketing in US is trying to get more customers all the time. In Finland marketing is trying to keep the old customers happy. I have never been in advertising business, but thats how I think the things are..One big problem in Finnish marketing is that buyer often know more about different products than salesman...

    You will just need a lot of it which is why I recommend using a can of 134a Freon along with a separate penetrating oil...........
    I can't buy a can of freon legally in here. First you have to have a firm to buy those. Second you'll need some kind of license to use that stuff (this wouldn't be a problem, no one comes to my home to see if I have license). This is one idiotic law which came in recent years........ It just sucks....And If I get caught, I can get max two year prison sentence....

    I could risk and buy that freon from some else EU country, and hope that customs don't take my freon (If they do, I have to pay some customs payments and maybe some fine) . Other way to get freon is to get someone bring it to me from Russia. Some people bring R-12 freon from there because you can't buy it in Finland.

    Would CO2 welding gas work good?

    By the way; -50C. in Finland. Are you kidding me?!!!! That's -58F
    No no no

    We have max -35C in Finland. I would like to be sure about that coolants freezing point. I remember some waterless (or some special coolant, i don't remember) coolant went solid when it was tested few years ago.

    Were the old plugs oil fouled? What was the plug numbers that you removed?
    Old plugs looked suprisingly good. They were pretty clean. Only one was in carbon, and it was that cylinders plug which got highest result in pressure test. Now my car is on my friends place, and the old plugs are in the car. I'll check that number as soon as I can and write them here.

    Did all of your detonation/pre-ignition start after installing those plugs? When did this engine start pinging...recently, or did it ping last year when opening your secondaries?
    Engine did ping a little in last year with open secondaries. I changed my points (which was stupid thing to do, because distributor is jammed and I coulnd't adjust my ignition) and plugs at the same time.

    #2. Are you using a 50/50 mix of ethylene glycol coolant or have you checked the concentration and specific gravity with coolant hydrometer?
    Yes, I am using 50/50 mix. I checked my coolants freeze protection with optical tester and it showed me I have 50/50 mix.

    Are you using organic acid technology (OAT) Dex-Cool or hybrid organic acid technology (HOAT) formulation like ZEREX anti-freeze coolant in your cooling system?
    I have no idea. Which one I should use? We have dexcool in Finland, but Im not sure about ZEREX.

    I checked my antifreeze and It was very rusty. I may consider some chamical cleaning if I dont need to re-ring my engine. I piston ring soak doesn't help, and the pass leaks stay high, Ill have to re-ring my engine and then I don't see any reason why I should clean my cooling system now.



    I was visiting few stores where I could get piston ring soaking chemicals. Brand I saw were STP, Forte, CRC and LiquiMoly. They all had some kind of valve cleaning chemicals but none of them had ring soaking chamicals. Does valve cleaning do the thing?

    Forte chemicals are expensive professional chemicals. They are very high strong and quality chemicals. All the other were bit cheaper than Forte. What chemicals you have used when soaking rings?

  9. #129
    cadchris's Avatar
    cadchris is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac 91 Bro-Ham, 91 Yello-dorado
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    44
    Posts
    233

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    3dfx,

    What "coolant type" did you use?

    When you bought the car, what color was the fluid? Orange, Green, yellow, or pink?

    Or was there only a rust color?

    Did you use Dex-Cool?

    You did say your coolant was rusty color.... Does your coolant look rusty, sludgy and muddy like seen in the photos below ?

    Or is the water rusty colored with "hard flakes" of actual "iron oxide" (rust)?

    Rusty Coolant.jpg

    Rusty Coolant 1.jpg

    Or.....does it look like this: Cooling System Organic Calcium Scale:

    cooling-system-scale.jpg

  10. #130
    3dfx is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): Coupe de ville 1969
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Age
    29
    Posts
    59
    Thread Starter

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    What "coolant type" did you use?
    Basically we use two kind of anti-freeze. First one is the green coloured and second one is red coloured. Green one is more traditional and used in older cars and red one in newer cars, often in VAG cars. Red one does not have any silicate, phosphate or nitrite compounds. Those two coolants cannot be mixed or something bad will happen (no one knows what but there are lots of rumours what will happen if those are mixed).

    Of course there is GM Dex-Cool which should be compatible with every coolant and yellow one for Citroen, Renault and Peugeot. There was a blue coolant too, but I dont remember which cars used it.

    So, im not sure what ingredients my coolant have..

    When you bought the car, what color was the fluid? Orange, Green, yellow, or pink?
    Green

    Or was there only a rust color?
    It was pretty much rust coloured but I'm pretty sure coolants original colour had been green.

    Did you use Dex-Cool?
    Nope

    You did say your coolant was rusty color.... Does your coolant look rusty, sludgy and muddy like seen in the photos below ?
    It wasn't that muddy like in first photo. There wasn't lots of "mud" in radiator. A little only. I flushed it several times with water and lots of "mud" came out.

    Or is the water rusty colored with "hard flakes" of actual "iron oxide" (rust)?
    Yes there is very small flakes of rust in my radiator and liquid is all rusty coloured.

    Or.....does it look like this: Cooling System Organic Calcium Scale:
    Yes. I have lots of that organic calsium scale in my radiator. It looked just like that.

  11. #131
    3dfx is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): Coupe de ville 1969
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Age
    29
    Posts
    59
    Thread Starter

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    Today I called one local spare part salesman, who has lots of knowledge and contacs about USA cars, especially GM cars. He said that he could get "new" factory repaired point breaker distributor for me for 120 euros. He could get that for me in three to five days.

    So, I have now new distributor avainable if my distributor breaks down when trying to move it.

    Today I took my AC-compressor (which has an bearing failure) away from my way. I think I start working on my distributor on the next weekend.

    I noticed some king of vacuum distributor in front of the driver side cylinder head. Should that be used for vacuum advance?

    Now my vacuum advance goes from carburetor (in front of the drivers side of the carburetor) to distributor. Should my engine take it's vacuum advance from there or from intake manifold?

  12. #132
    cadchris's Avatar
    cadchris is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac 91 Bro-Ham, 91 Yello-dorado
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    44
    Posts
    233

    Exclamation Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    O.k. Lots of questions to get back to you about.

    But are you talking about this "thermal vacuum switch" in the following link?
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...um-switch.html

    The link below also talks about the thermal switch but the link will not post correctly. This Forum will not allow any links from that website to be posted. When they get inserted, it turns them into a "cadillacowners" web address that will not work. The forum owners must not like each other!

    Just close the spaces in the address below:
    www . cadillac power . com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=79618


    Don't throw away that thermal switch. I have some idea's for it to be used for something else that I'll let you know about when I ask someone about another idea!!!!!!


    Maybe others can let you know how to hook up the distributor because I've read on many forums to use direct intake vacuum but that was tuning with an HEI.....others have said to use ported carb. vacuum. I really think it will depend on how you tune your advance curve which will make a big difference. For now, not sure, but temperature has a lot to do with it if the car is operate in cold conditions and how the advance works when the engine started in cold outside temps.
    I also can't find an engine/distributor vacuum diagram on the internet. Anyone have one to post?


    I may as well post some distributor advance performance tuning info. I've found from 2 very good sources. I'll post it later when I find it because it will basically eliminate that switch. I don't think it would be needed unless some others have ideas they'd like to post about it.


    Regards,
    Chris
    Benzilla and Benzilla like this.

  13. #133
    cadchris's Avatar
    cadchris is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac 91 Bro-Ham, 91 Yello-dorado
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    44
    Posts
    233

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    O.K.......here's a new thread I started on tuning the distributor vacuum advance for fuel efficiency and power. I decided to post a separate thread and post it back here to keep this thread clean and because it would get more attention in a separate thread than posting here and should be helpful with the original subject of this thread. Here's the link:
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ml#post3457345

    "3dfx", this should motivate you to get that stuck distributor out of that engine so you can tune the vacuum advance correctly for fuel efficiency !

    I think that distributor is too expensive. "Rock Auto" is much cheaper, but I wonder how much it would cost to get it to Finland. Make sure your not getting a Chinese distributor. I've read so much about many bad HEI distributors being made in China, but also a few good ones. By the way, MSD, Accel, ProForm are all made in China, but made to higher specifications!

    Use this link for RockAuto because this "version" of their catalog is easier to look up items as compared to their regular "drop-down" catalog: http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/catalog.php

    Not sure if this link will work to the distributors:
    http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,ca...,parttype,7108

    A1 Cardone is only $42 / 32.00 Euros. It can't be that much to ship it to Finland.....can it?


    Anyway, I will post more final thoughts and what the Engineers had to say on freeing that stuck distributor.......which is really not too different from my original ideas.

    Regards,
    Chris

  14. #134
    cadchris's Avatar
    cadchris is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac 91 Bro-Ham, 91 Yello-dorado
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    44
    Posts
    233

    Lightbulb Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    3dfx,

    I'm going to address your distributor removal again and then tomorrow, I'll post about your cooling system problems and info I found.

    Since you can not get R134a Refrigerant which will only cool to -15 F., liquid CO2 will allow you to make powder Dry Ice which is -109 F. and is even better to super-cool your distributor in order to shrink the aluminum distributor shaft since aluminum has more thermodynamics and will conduct the freezing temps faster than the iron block and will contract/shrink more than iron and will hopefully break the galvanic corrosion bond. My original concern was making the aluminum brittle, like how Liquid Nitrogen would do at -300F. But -109 F. should be fine. It will also help draw the fluid down the shaft as will heat cycling also if you decide to use heat.

    To answer your question about CO2 Welding Gas. Yes, you can use CO2 Welding Gas, but it must not be mixed with any other gas like Argon which is commonly mixed together for welding. If you can get regular CO2 Gas, you must turn the tank upside down to dispense the liquid CO2 to make Powder Dry Ice. Or get a CO2 tank that has an internal "siphon dip tube" and when the valve is opened, it will release liquid CO2 when the tank is standing upright.

    The next best alternative to make powered dry ice easily is with a CO2 Fire Extinguisher. Make sure it is ONLY a CO2 Fire Extinguisher and does not contain any other chemical.

    Here are many links on making Dry Ice from CO2:

    http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-make-dry-ice

    http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Dry-Ice

    http://gizmodo.com/5982730/how-to-make-dry-ice-at-home

    Dry Ice Block Maker:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gfUS7XvshIM

    How to make Dry Ice Search:
    http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...be.GNK86SggIEY


    The best way to collect the Dry Ice efficiently is to make a bag out Denim Blue Jeans. Cut 1 leg of old blue jeans and either sew one end or twist the leg closed on one end in order to catch the dry ice. These devices are made from Denim Blue Jean Material:
    http://www.coleparmer.co.uk/1/1/4779...ice-maker.html

    http://www.thomassci.com/Equipment/I...DRY-ICE-MAKER/

    http://metlabsupply.com/supplies/ind...da76a69655c2bc

    http://www.amazon.com/Bel-Art-Scienc...9790411&sr=1-1

    Review that says to make the same device out of old Blue Jeans....good advice:
    http://www.amazon.com/Bel-Art-Scienc...owViewpoints=1


    I really don't think the freeze sprays will get the distributor housing cold enough, but you could always try. I would also make some sort of a "temporary" well or reservoir around the distibutor base out of a clay, putty, or 2 part epoxy stick like these products that you could find at a hardware store or auto parts store:

    http://www.jbweld.com/product/j-b-highheat/

    https://www.google.com/search?q=EPOX...w=1024&bih=673

    Clean the block area around the distributor with brake cleaner to get the material to stick to the iron block. Form it around the distributor but place it on the iron engine block only, and form it up to make a dam so it can hold fluid like the penetrating oil or the ATF/Acetone mix. Drive the car around for a week and keep filling the reservoir to keep penetrating oil around the distributor base so it can soak under the distributor to get to the corrosion. Hopefully the heat/cold cycles will free up the distributor. If not, then use the dry ice power to pack around ONLY the distributor to quickly super-cool the aluminum and shrink it away from the iron.

    Here is the Engineering/Metalurgy link where I asked for advice. This turned out to be an interesting discussion.
    I need to follow up with those guys, and will also keep posting some other ideas for their advice. Another idea I had was to soak the distributor base with "inhibited HCL solution" which would selectively dissolve the corrosion and not affect the metals. Mostly the Metalurgist all confirmed many of my ideas and concerns that I posted previously here in post #112, and #121:

    http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=345616

    By the way, make your Dry Ice outdoors or with a lot of ventilation. CO2 will displace oxygen and you could pass out if making it in a small area especially if you have pets because CO2 is heavier than air and will collect on the floor.


    Take your time, and be very patient. Try to soak the distributor base first and keep fluid around that distributor base bore hole.

    Good Luck,

    Chris

  15. #135
    cadchris's Avatar
    cadchris is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): Cadillac 91 Bro-Ham, 91 Yello-dorado
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Age
    44
    Posts
    233

    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    Just want to insert (Outsiders) old thread here for reference on the subject about the stuck distributor on his 69' in case others post there:
    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...ml#post3467633

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting