- 04-04-13 04:43 PM #91
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?What was wrong with the points? Was the spring worn, or were they burned? Could you not have sanded the points smooth with very fine sand paper?
Many articles on restoring points:
I want my car to be reliable and I think any trics with burned points won't turn them into new. I'll leave the old points to my car drunk if the new ones will burn or something else happens to them.Have you ever heard of RockAuto.com? It is a well known internet parts company here in the U.S. You can see how the price varies from better quality to lower quality points. Hopefully you got the better quality points for that price.
I have compared those prices with Finland prices and the problem is that shipping to Europe is very expensive and with shipping cost added to original price, the price could be even higher than prize in Finland. Only way ordering becomes cheaper is "group ordering". For exaple, if I can get something like 4 to 10 people to order from there and split the shipping cost, ordering could be reasonable.
- 04-04-13 08:46 PM #92
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?
But, I bet it made a good spark plug. There were some very innovative scientist back then, and I wonder if that plug today with active Polonium could have made serious fuel mileage gains.......maybe the idea was to make the combustion chamber into a nuclear reactor then blow out the spent by-product out the tail pipe! I wonder what the E.P.A. would say today!
Taken from another Forum: The radioactive plugs, made by Firestone, were researched by a national testing lab. The lab found that the claims by the Firestone Company were in fact correct. For about 30 days! Aparrently the radiation did break down the fuel into smaller particals, making combustion more effecient, but the short half life of the Polonium made it inneffective after about 30 days.
Like Marty McFly said in the movie: Back to the Future: "Doc, Are you telling me that this sucker is nuclear?"
- 04-06-13 03:05 AM #93
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?
Eric Bollander of ERSON Cams told me to call Gene Donnell COMP Cams who has been there for many years and I called him today. He did not know that COMP is/was making the cams for MTS, but will find out next week and have someone who specializes in the old Cadillac's call me next week.
Tomorrow, I'm going to send a letter by mail to the 2 different home addresses of Al Betker and that should work, because I have never received any phone calls from family members that I left messages for....unless they were not related to him.
For the past 2 months, I've been reading a lot of information about the GM HEI's, GM Points Distributors, Pertronix conversions, and recently found some very complex articles from another distributor expert about theses 2 different distributor types especially about how to recurve each type of distributor to obtain the optimum advance. It's much more complicated than the past 100 links of forums, magazine articles that I saved that talked about it. It is a highly specialized art that many distributor companies most likely do not do......I'm actually over-welmed from what I've read and even more confused now, but will pass this info on, but hopefully Al Betker will answer all questions!
I think that again, most of the power and economy is going to be achieved by the modifications to the distributors advance of either a points or HEI style distributor, and then matched with carb tuning with the MTS#3 Cam. This recent forum had the most technical discussion about recurving any distributor either HEI, or Points type, and they all agreed that the advance needs to match the cam, converter stall, car weight, transmission, gears, and combustion chamber/heads efficiency.......so the advance needs adjusted methodically and not in general like many company's do or what is written in the car magazines.
When you replace your points, it would be a good idea to note and write down for future reference, ALL numbers or stampings on the centrifugal weights and center shaft weight and distributor housing? The numbers on the weights may be stamped on the under side of the weights and is probably not worth taking it apart now and risk loosing a spring if it flies off when taking it apart......so be careful, unless you also bought a new spring kit. But all the experts agree NOT to use aftermarket distributor weights because they are too light, and are not made to the correct shape and dimensions and are even drilled wrong from China. This includes the performance kits by Accel/Mr. Gasket. If you don't have the original weights in the distributor, you may want to find original New Old Stock weights.......hopefully that distributor is the original that came on the engine.
Also, note and write down the distributor housing numbers, vacuum advance number on the shaft that connects to the base plate and make sure your "vacuum advance" holds vacuum with a vacuum pump to be sure the diaphram is o.k. Make sure you can see the advance working when doing this.
I went crazy on my friends Mustang, (which did have a Pertronix unit), because so many other idiots had their hands on the car goofing around with it. The vacuum advance would hold vacuum but would not advance the distributor......found out eventually, that someone put a small ball bearing deep inside the vacuum line to stop the vacuum advance!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Since he worked for the government, that 65 Mustang went around the world, and some expert Mustang mechanic out of Melbourn Australia even missed this and couldn't get the car to run good......the builder/restorer even had missmatched parts from the PAW Engine Kit, and torque converter. I spent months going through his paper work which was all lies of what he supposedly had.
Also, make sure the weights and base-plate moves freely and has some kind of appropriate grease on the advance weights and base-plate.
Since you payed so much money for the Points, here is some very good advice on using the correct grease and lubrication so you don't damage your new points:
Maybe you can find this Distributor Cam Lube over in Europe:
Then there's this conversation by the Ferrari Guy's debating on that grease if the points have a "felt wick" that is used for oil!
But you still need to use a lighter lubricant on the weights and pivots.
Just so you know, if you can find a Petronix I or II somewhere over there for a good deal and cheap, maybe even used, it maybe worth it as a quick upgrade and just keep the old point in the car like many do..
But, only get the Pertronix Ignitor I #1181 and NOT the 1181 LS or if you can find an Ignitor II #91181.
Here is what 1 expert said who likes to use the Pertronix Ignitors:
"Two different versions of this are manufactured. The good one has the magnet ring which bolts under the rotor and weight assembly, and uses a "hall effect" sensor for triggering...very reliable.
The bad one fires off the lobes of the point cam. It has the "LS" designation in the part number denoting "lobe sensor". Any wear on the lobes will show up as inaccurate cylinder to cylinder timing variations. Also, the signal strength generated to trigger the circuit is far less reliable than the neodymium magnets used in the other version.
Interestingly, they sell both units for about the same price........................"
If you can find either a used or new Pertronix Ignitor that is really cheap, then it may be worth trying out before upgrading to an HEI, or CDI ignition some day.
You may want to make a list from the Pertronix Catalog of what other cars/trucks used the #1181, and check out distributors in salvage yard cars or at parts swap meets....you may get lucky some day!
- 04-06-13 01:29 PM #94
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?
You two need a Skype account.
- 04-06-13 02:24 PM #95
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?
You should really see what I collected and have debating on posting!!!!!!!!! A lot of in depth HEI mods, form and function of the transistorized module and different pickup coils and other mods vs. Pertronix that most do not know about because I had to sort through hundreds of b.s. websites and forums.
I think I'll start different threads on a few of these in depth topics with tons sources/links and just post the threads links back here to try and keep the this thread a little cleaner than I made it!
I don't think Skype would work in this case, because I'm not sure if 3dfx speaks English, and I haven't brushed up on my Finnish! He's probably using the auto translator! But I must say, he's doing a great job at posting!
I just spent the last few nights correcting and re-writing a legal complaint from broken Russian/English to lega'eez English for my of my old neighbor who is a Russian Engineer. I'm glad I knew from an engineering standpoint of what the hell he was talking about!
By the way, I'm certainly not the "King of One Liners"! Google it! I'm kind of "Older Schooled" than you!
I have to get this letter out to Al Betker today..........I hope he responds.
- 04-06-13 05:39 PM #96
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?
I would say that he probably speaks English fluently.
I was joking about Skype. Keep posting here, I'm sure others enjoy reading it.
- 04-07-13 09:00 AM #97
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?I don't think Skype would work in this case, because I'm not sure if 3dfx speaks English, and I haven't brushed up on my Finnish! He's probably using the auto translator! But I must say, he's doing a great job at posting!
In forum like this, I have plenty of time to read posts and answer them. In chat type discussion, I would not have much time to answer and I think that would be the main reason why Skype wouldn't work.
About auto-translators. I think they work with two languages very similar to each other. Finnish and English are two very different languages and auto translator doesn't work. It's a great tool but I can't fully rely on that.
For exaple we don't have any strict word order in sentences. We can pretty freely put words to any order in sentence. That's why Yoda's speak in Star Wars doesn't work at all when translated to Finnish. This is one reason why my word order in english sentences can be wrong and funny.
Finnish language doesn't have any prepositions. For exapmple, if we take word "car", "auto" in finnish. If something is in the car, english says "in car" but in finnish it's "autossa". We put letters in to back of the word instead of using separate prepositions. We also don't have this " ' " letter in our language, so finnish people may forget it often when writing english. We often write "dont" instead of "don't".
And one thing I would you to know about finnish language. We don't use word "please" like engish speakers use. In finnish language we say word please only in the situations like if someone is pointing someone with a gun. Then we could say "Please put the gun down". "Please" is used only if begging for mercy. Many finnish people who donät speak english daily forget to say "please" because it's so abnormal in our language to use that word everywhere and this can lead to awkward situations. We don't mean to be rude if we don't say please. I'm sorry if I have forgotten to say "please" in some point of the conversation.
One language expert told me that finnish language is writing-based and english is speaking-based. Many finnish can remember how english words are written but not how it's pronounced.
I'm no language expert but I think these are to main reasons why auto-translators don't work and why some of my texts may be funny in your opinion
Okay, and back to cadillacs
Yesterday I drove a little bit with my cadillac and I noticed that my gas tank is leaking dramatically. Something like 30-50 liters of fuel had evaporated from the gas tank in the winter well, I'll have to fix that before I'll start driving with cad again. This can be one reason why I have bad economy. In summer gas evaporates even more because it's hotter. Hope I can squeeze out one or two mpg just by fixing that leaking gas tank.
- 04-07-13 10:46 AM #98
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?
Very interesting explanation of the language. Thank you.
I have been following this thread and enjoying the conversation.
You manage very the language problem well.
- 04-07-13 12:32 PM #99
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?That's why Yoda's speak in Star Wars doesn't work at all when translated to Finnish
- 04-07-13 04:01 PM #100
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?
Very interesting 3dfx,
You don't have to put the gun down , but can you "PLEASE" tell me this?........I guess you learned to speak and write English...right? If so your doing very well. Now you just have to teach us the "bad words" in Finnish you say every time you go to fill the gas tank or when something goes wrong with your Caddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does the "Please" word apply to Sweden......if so, I'll have to start joking with my Swedish neighbor and tell him he didn't say "PLEASE"!
Is your car physically leaking liquid fuel like a fuel line leak or hole in the gas tank, or maybe that problem with the Q-Jets plugs that leak and cause the hot start problem, or is it just evaporating?
I don't know the fuel systems well on this car, but did the 1968 have a EVAP system or a sealed or vented tank.....I guess not according to ROCKAUTO.... I wonder if adding one of the simpler EVAP systems would prevent further evaporation Anyone?
I checked out ROCKAUTO, and it looks like that the gas cap is a "non-vented" style cap which should prevent the quick evaporation of the butane and other components. Did you use a fuel stabilizer additive before putting this car in storage?
Did you have summer fuel in that tank or winter fuel? I'm sure Finland also changes formulations like the U.S. so the gas does not evaporate during the summer months, but 8-13 U.S. gallons of fuel is a lot of fuel missing from your tank!
Was the tank full when you stored it and how did you come up with that much fuel missing?
Unless, someone "borrowed" some of your fuel? I hope you have a locking gas cap with those prices !!!!
Most likely, your fuel tank cap check valve is defective and allowing tank vapors to vent from the tank quickly.
Here's some good and straight forward background on the subject of "Summer versus Winter Gas" and it's evaporation characteristics:
Here's how the early GM EVAP system worked and contained vapors for emmisions reasons....I wonder if it would further assist in evaporation for slight improvement in economy.....you could always put an old early GM EVAP system on!
Every teaspoon of fuel saved will help at those prices!
- 04-07-13 05:12 PM #101
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?.I guess you learned to speak and write English...right?Now you just have to teach us the "bad words" in Finnish you say every time you go to fill the gas tank or when something goes wrong with your Caddy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They don't work if I write them down. You have to pronounce them right. Then they really to the job (My opinion is that they do the job better than english ones You can really unleash all you anger to those words). Finnish "bad words" sounds like some old two-stroke single cylinder motorcycles on idle without silencer
Filling gas tank isn't as bad as every year vehicle inspections. That inspection engineer finds always some little fault in peoples cars and and gives fail and one month time to fix it. I'll have to pay something like 70 euros from that inspection and more if my car fails...Last week I drove one toyota to vehicle inspection and hope that the inspector wouldn't stab his iron stick throught that toyotas floor. Luckily he didn't found the weak spot. That floor really had lots of weak spots...Is your car physically leaking liquid fuel like a fuel line leak or hole in the gas tank, or maybe that problem with the Q-Jets plugs that leak and cause the hot start problem, or is it just evaporating?
I smelled strong gas smell under the car yesterday, so guess it's leaking.Did you have summer fuel in that tank or winter fuel? I'm sure Finland also changes formulations like the U.S. so the gas does not evaporate during the summer months, but 8-13 U.S. gallons of fuel is a lot of fuel missing from your tank!Was the tank full when you stored it and how did you come up with that much fuel missing?Unless, someone "borrowed" some of your fuel? I hope you have a locking gas cap with those prices !!!!
- 04-08-13 03:03 AM #102
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?They don't work if I write them down. You have to pronounce them right. Then they really to the job (My opinion is that they do the job better than english ones You can really unleash all you anger to those words). Finnish "bad words" sounds like some old two-stroke single cylinder motorcycles on idle without silencer
From how you describe the Finnish swear words, it must sound a lot like "KLINGON"!Filling gas tank isn't as bad as every year vehicle inspections. That inspection engineer finds always some little fault in peoples cars and and gives fail and one month time to fix it. I'll have to pay something like 70 euros from that inspection and more if my car fails.
A known trick is adding "Methanol" to the fuel before a test which burns very clean and hot, and after the test, fill the fuel tank to dilute it since Methanol is hard on older seals and lines. Many people will put a few bottles of "HEET" (YELLOW BOTTLE) to around 6 gallons of fuel. HEET is used as a fuel anti-freeze and is purified methanol not ethanol. (Methanol, is also known as methyl alcohol, wood alcohol, wood naphtha or wood spirits, which is a chemical with the formula CH3OH (often abbreviated MeOH) and can be bought at your local paint store or where RACE GAS is sold and they will give you the best known mix rate for gasoline).
ISO HEET RED BOTTLE is a different formulation and only contains isopropanol/isopropyl alcohol and not the same as Methanol. http://www.goldeagle.com/products/product3D0E.aspx
An old product here in the U.S. is RxP Gas Kicker and is mostly forgotten about since the original inventor died. http://www.rxp.com/ Not sure if its available in Europe or if its under a different label. This stuff came out years ago to beat emissions testing and the auto parts stores had to place it behind the counter because people would steal it since it worked great for only $7 a bottle to pass emissions!
This company also got in trouble with the EPA because they were marketing it to "cheat emissions testing" and they had to change their advertisements because many owners would use it then never fix their cars.
I recently was researching these products and spoke to the company a few times and their technical guy. RxP has a very strange corporate structure that seems non-existent! The original owner died http://www2.rxp.com/ who I guess originally established the company and the industrial accounts along with the automotive accounts, and left the business to his daughter. They have an industrial product line http://www.flamex.com/Page2.htm that has a similar additive technology for welding fuel and propane which is in fact methanol based according to their MSDS sheet. The RxP is a secret formulation and very vague. I nor other's can figure out what it really contains...but I have a feeling it does contain Methanol. Some day soon, I'm going to join a forum that cost $100 per year to discuss all of these additives with industry experts: chemists, tribologist, and physicist. There are even a few technologies I want to run by them which will put their expertise to the test!
I guess the "RxP" works and can be used in every tank for fuel efficiency, and de-carbonization of the combustion chambers and to cheat the emissions testing just like Methanol, but it must have a chemical "buffer" in it, which is not the word I'm looking for, but if it has Methanol, it must be combined with something else to lessen the solevancy and corosiveness of the Methanol is on seals. I'm going to do some test when I get my boro-scope fixed or buy a new one and also find someone local with a 5 gas analyzer since Florida has not had emission testing for 15 yrs!
There are some interesting Youtube videos about RxP. Go to Youtube and search for "Ed Wallace RxP" who is well known and has a radio talk show on car repairs. I'm sure that this was not a payed advertisement for Rxp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzanzSwUZ2AI smelled strong gas smell under the car yesterday, so guess it's leaking.
Here is a great way to find all kinds of different leaks. UV Dye added to the coolant, oil, trans, A/C, fuel and it floureses or glows under UV light along with the use of special yellow glasses and to use in the dark to look for leaks.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...+dye+oil+fuel+The tank was quater or half full. Now it was empty (according to fuel gauge).
It was alleged that Motiva tried to cheat the consumers and not further refine a lot of high sulfur crude they had purchased and intentionally sold off the high sulfur fuel instead of refining it and took a chance to send it out to gas stations.........GM was not going to warranty million's of dollars of fuel sending units on new cars, so GM, Ford, Chrysler went after MOTIVA and initiated the Class Action.
Even low levels of sulfur will affect the fuel gauge's accuracy over time. So after this big problem, Chevron then developed a special fuel additive that cleans the fuel sending units because the Sulfur will still slowly build up on the "silver coated sensor". It's called: Techron Concentrate "PLUS" not their regular Techron additive which contains PEA which is a carbon cleaner. The compound in the Techron Concentrate PLUS cleaner is a combination of a certain poly(oxyalkylene) amine and a thiadiazole compound. It was also packaged for GM by Chevron: "GM Fuel System Treatment Plus (#88861011)" and is 3 times the cost at the dealer for the GM Brand rather than the Techron Plus brand which can be purchased at the auto parts stores or on-line.
Advance Auto just had it on sale "buy one get one free" $12.
Use it occasionally, until they take out ALL sulfur in the fuel.
Hopefully they will just remove all the sulfur from gas which would be better than the addition of ethanol, would drastically lower pollution, and would increase combustion efficiency, but of course will be at an inflated cost This was just in the news:
In case you wanted to know more.......here's an in depth discussion on "Summer Blend Fuels":
Sorry for the long dissertation..........
- 04-09-13 04:20 PM #103
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?Here in the U.S. there are known tricks to beat emissions...and eventually, I was going to do an big write-up on different fuel additives and mixtures. It sounds like the "Finnish Emissions Police" are really hard-asses so here's some U.S tricks to play on them.
What kinds of emission standards you have in U.S? Here in Finland, emissions must be checked every year in cars made later than 1978. We check HC (hydrocarbons), CO and O2 from cars. First emission standards ( cars made between 1978 and 1986) are pretty easy to beat, You can have max. 1000ppm HC and 4,5% CO on idle. O2 value doesn't have any official value. Many vehicle inspectors keep 5% as limit. If O2 is more than 5%, the exhaust will leak and car fails. Only exeption is old amrican cars with air pump. They can have more than 5% O2.
Second standards (cars made between 1986 and 1991) is bit more difficult to beat than the first standard. You can have max. 600 ppm HC and 3,5% CO on idle, if the car isn't equipped with catalytic converter or registered as low-emission vehicle.
Third standards are pretty strict and because of them you'll have to repair fine running engine just because it doesn't pass the emission test Those late 80s and early to mid 90s cars with fuel injection just suck... In third standard which applies on cars made between 1991 and 2000 and on cars which are registered as low-emission vehicles, you can have max. 100ppm HC and 0,5% CO on idle, and 100HC and 0,3% CO on "intercreased idle" (something like 2000 to 3000 rpm)
From 2000 on idle test is replaced with OBD scan and emission test from "intercreased idle" is same as before but CO standard is lowered to 0,2 %.
Those test apply only on gas powered cars. Diesel cars have their own test where throttle pedal is pressed to floor and kept there for something like two seconds. The dieseltester will measure how much smoke came out from the exhaust.
What kind of emission tests you have on U.S?
Corrosion is the biggest problem in old cars (and in some new, for example, some mazda6 cars failed first inspection (made two years after new vehicle is bought) because there was a hole in their floor) Here roads are kept unfrozen by spreading salt all over the highway and salt dramatically speeds up the corrosion. Salt only works if temperature on the outside is more than -6 degrees celcius. I don't know whats the point in spreading salt because when salt is spreaded all over the highway on the day time it unfreezes the road. When night comes and temperature goes down, liquid salt-water-combination starts to froze and makes very slippery black ice on the road. It's way more sippery than the road before spreading salt. The road is unfrozen only couple of hours in the day, but most of the time its very slippery and frozen...A known trick is adding "Methanol" to the fuel before a test which burns very clean and hot, and after the test, fill the fuel tank to dilute it since Methanol is hard on older seals and lines. Many people will put a few bottles of "HEET" (YELLOW BOTTLE) to around 6 gallons of fuel. HEET is used as a fuel anti-freeze and is purified methanol not ethanol. (Methanol, is also known as methyl alcohol, wood alcohol, wood naphtha or wood spirits, which is a chemical with the formula CH3OH (often abbreviated MeOH) and can be bought at your local paint store or where RACE GAS is sold and they will give you the best known mix rate for gasoline).You could have a hole in the top of the tank or just a bad seal where the sending unit goes into the tank.
- 04-09-13 06:37 PM #104
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?
I haven't had to deal with emissions testing for years. Florida has no safety or emissions testing which I'm really against. So many junk unsafe cars on the road, but our air quality is wonderful! All of our pollution gets carried by the on shore ocean breeze and blown to the Gulf of Mexico and Texas suffers from our smog and has the highest pollution in the country!
From what I remember, California and Arizona always had the strictest emissions program called the IM240 which is a much different test and measures the quantity of gases in "grams per mile" and the car is driven on a dyno. I'm sure they use an even more strict program today. Any cars sold in California also have additional equipment and devices added to the cars for better emissions control. If you buy a car outside of California, and move there, it is a big problem since the car does not have this additional equipment.........was like that for years unless all new cars are now California approved.
Other states here in the U.S. use more of the traditional testing standards:
I really can't find a list for limits here in the U.S.. Not sure if this applies:
Here is a list per state but you will have to click on each state to see what the limitations are:
Maybe others know........
I missed the call from COMP CAMS today and left a message again........maybe they know something.
- 04-10-13 05:56 PM #105
Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?Florida has no safety or emissions testing which I'm really against. So many junk unsafe cars on the road, but our air quality is wonderful! All of our pollution gets carried by the on shore ocean breeze and blown to the Gulf of Mexico and Texas suffers from our smog and has the highest pollution in the country!
Here air quality is great too. I think Finnish towns haven't ever had any smog problems. Maybe it's because we only have small towns here. Our biggest town, Helsinki, has about 600 000 people living there in the heart of the city.
In Finland, those pollution checks and car pollution tax is nonsence. We don't have any smog problems. Every year "vehicle tax" is paid by how much CO2 emissions does car have (exept old cars, they are taxed by weight). The more CO2 emissions your car has, the more you will pay. This is just nonsence. CO2 is one of the non-harmfull gas which comes out from the exhaust. Of course, it's a greenhouse gas but we in Finland are so small nation that we can't influence anything what comes to greenhouse gas pollution. Pollution standards are becoming more strict too fast and car manufacturers have to use systems like EGR in their cars. Those EGR really suck and manifolds look often the same as old twostrokers exhaust. One diesel car I fixed had so much oil/carbon inside manifold that my little finger was too big to fit the hole. There was something about quater inch hole in it..... These kinds of systems are just irrational..
As long as we are on EU, and as long as there is The Green party and EU enthusiasts in government, we can't wait anything good to happen. People in Green party thinks they are saving the world etc. They should stop thinking their fantasies and start being realistic. Many international companies have left Finland because our taxing isn't long-term (suddenly some taxes will rise and some taxes will come down), we have high tax rates and high wages, pretty strong labor union and we have too strict pollution standards. For example, there's coming the "sulphur directive" (about in year 2014), which denies ships using traditional and cheap diesel and forces them to use expensive low-sulphur diesel. Something like 90% of our export is based on ships. This directive may cause from hundreds to thousands (or even tenthousands) of people to lose their job because shipping is so expensive. The stupidest thing in this directive is that south EU states doesn't have to start using this low sulphur diesel before 2020. So, Finland is paying the developement of technology for low-sulphur diesels and the others just copy it when year 2020 comes.
Can you imagine that our government accepted this kind of crazy directive and one of our representative in EU (from the green party....) was recommending and advocating this directive??Any cars sold in California also have additional equipment and devices added to the cars for better emissions control. If you buy a car outside of California, and move there, it is a big problem since the car does not have this additional equipment.........was like that for years unless all new cars are now California approved.
- Sponsored Links Remove Advertisements
+ Reply to Thread
Gear in this thread - Powered by O'Reilly Auto Parts