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500, 472, 425, 368 Discussion, 472, how to boost fuel economy? in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; I had some spare time today and I checked some pointless ignition conversion things. Petronix has Ignitor branded ignition systems. ...
  1. #61
    3dfx is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    I had some spare time today and I checked some pointless ignition conversion things.

    Petronix has Ignitor branded ignition systems. They are just replacing the points in ignition system and I could use same distributor as before.

    Is that Petronix ignitor as good as HEI conversion? That Ignitor costs here 170 euros ( sounds very expensive, I think its lot cheaper in US). Will it worth the price? Petronix system would be more easier than some other HEI system with different advance curves. If I convert to ptronix, should I buy different ignition coil, some kind of "high power"?

    "Real" HEI would cost a bit less than 300$ (230 euros?). Does those HEI distributosr have problems with getting spark advance curves right? Or doest it even fit my cadillac? I heard somewhere that power steering pump must be replaced too if I want to use HEI distributor?

    Some people here say that converting to Petronix ignitor will give 5litres/100km boost to consumption. That would be great!

    Does anyone have any experience about those ignition systems and their affects to MPG?

    What about those double point distributors? How will they work?

  2. #62
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    Submariner409 is offline If it won't run, slap in a big stereo
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    I have used over 30 Pertronix conversions in the Olds 455 marine engines I build. The absolute cat's meow for updating a points distributor. I would suggest that you use the companion Pertronix ignition coil for your system and ballast resistance.

    You need to do the conversion, then accurately set timing. As old as your distributor is, there may be additional work needed - vacuum advance trim or actual canister replacement.

  3. #63
    deVille33 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    The Pertronix work very well and you do not have to mess with changing pulleys or pumps. they were the answer to worn out shafts in old distributors, which affected dwell times.

  4. #64
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    Hi 3dfx,

    I sent you 2 "Private Messages" on the HEI. I'll post up the info when I hear back from some of the expert distributor re-builders and what their thoughts are.

    Regards,
    Chris

    ----------

    3dfx,

    I tried to send some other info to you by Private Message, but it will not go through until you clear some of your messages in your "Inbox". I sent you 2 messages, but the 3rd message gets rejected.

    Regards,
    Chris

  5. #65
    3dfx is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    I have cleared my inbox and now it is empty.

    Did you get my reply to your private messages?

  6. #66
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    ----------

    No......I didn't get your reply. My box only has 10 messages of 55 allowed.
    Maybe try sending it again.

    Did you get my first 2 messages that included a few different links on the HEI?

  7. #67
    3dfx is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    Did you get my first 2 messages that included a few different links on the HEI?
    Yes I did.

  8. #68
    SWEENDOG1969 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    cadillac is not for economy.Especially a big v-8,my 69 sedan deville gets about 8 (carb is junk) due to many w.o.t. occurances.

  9. #69
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    Exclamation Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    Hi 3dfx.

    I'm just posting this info here and will also send you the 3rd private message on the HEI. I was told that this junkyard in Sweden is the largest American, GM, and Cadillac junkyard for parts in Europe. When going to their site, do a search for "Cadillac". There are a lot of new cars and some old cars. They probably have many old parts in stock for the older Cadillacs.

    Here is their website: http://www.bildelarosby.se/

    I hope to remember to try and call Al Betker tomorrow because his old e-mail does not work as he was the old owner of MTS and should know about the details of the MTS #3 cam he developed and the 22 mpg 76' Sedan Deville with a 500! The new owner Marty said they lost the info on that car in a computer crash when they bought the company from Al Betker a few years ago..

    Here is that link again for other members in case they don't know about it. This cam was developed because the factory cam was said that the intake opening event was 20 degrees After Top Dead Center for the beginning of emmisions regulations back then, and this cam totally woke this motor up with a conventional updated performance/economy grind:
    http://www.mtscadparts.net/servlet/t...dsh-500/Detail

    Regards,
    Chris

  10. #70
    3dfx is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    I'm just posting this info here and will also send you the 3rd private message on the HEI. I was told that this junkyard in Sweden is the largest American, GM, and Cadillac junkyard for parts in Europe.
    I must contact them if I can't find HEI parts in Finland.

    I hope to remember to try and call Al Betker tomorrow because his old e-mail does not work as he was the old owner of MTS and should know about the details of the MTS #3 cam he developed and the 22 mpg 76' Sedan Deville with a 500!
    It would be very interesting to know what modifications Al Betker had made to that Cadillac and how those modifications are compatible to my high compression engine. 76' did have HEI ignition, emission systems and low compression didn't it?

    I think my high compression should help me to get better mileage results. Here gas has been always expensive and many older car (80's and older) ran with Premium gas and have high compression engine to get better economy results. All "better" european cars (mercedes, volvo, saab, BMW...) used 99 octane fuel, and soviet cars used 92 (or even lower)octane gas. I don't know what octane USA cars used because no one couldn't afford big, luxurious gas guzzler. Only presidents (btw, one finnish president in the seventies had 69' cadillac) and very wealthy people could afford one. In eighties and nineties, people started to import used big estate wagons like chevy caprice and olds custom cruiser for family cars.

    By the way, Why car manufacturers started to make low compression engines in USA?

  11. #71
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    Why car manufacturers started to make low compression engines in USA
    Two reasons: for no lead fuels, and emission requirements.

  12. #72
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    I also agree about the beginning of emission requirements but the fuel crisis and the whole OPEC Oil Embargo had to have something to do with it and Detroit had to de-tuned these cars to aim for fuel efficiency.

    I'm sure insurance requirements had a little to do with it too, since Detroit lied about HP ratings all those years to keep insurance rates down during the muscle car wars..............a car was cheaper to insure with a reported rating of 200 hp, rather than 500 HP....or so I've heard! Yes a little exaggerated but you get the idea.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by cadchris
    I also agree about the beginning of emission requirements but the fuel crisis and the whole OPEC Oil Embargo had to have something to do with it and Detroit had to de-tuned these cars to aim for fuel efficiency.

    I'm sure insurance requirements had a little to do with it too, since Detroit lied about HP ratings all those years to keep insurance rates down during the muscle car wars..............a car was cheaper to insure with a reported rating of 200 hp, rather than 500 HP....or so I've heard! Yes a little exaggerated but you get the idea.
    200hp? A buddy of mine had a 400 powered GTO that was rated at 64 hp on the title!

  14. #74
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    That's funny.......and I thought I was being conservative!

  15. #75
    3dfx is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 472, how to boost fuel economy?

    Hi, CadChris

    Have you been in touch with Al Betker yet?


    I've come to think of last summer, and my driving, I remember now one, carburator problem I had. When I shut my warm engine off, and started it again after short perioid of time, the starter roteted the engine but it "jammed" about ½second after I have started starting. Then, ½-1 second silence and after that, the engine started immeatedly.

    Try to find out what I tried to mean. I'm not good at explaining these things in english.

    My friend (who had chevy in the eighties) said leaking needle valve or leaking plugs on the bottom of the carb could cause this. He wasn't sure about that because it has been long time since he has done anything to that carburetor.

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