v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?
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500, 472, 425, 368 Discussion, v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts? in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; hi cadillac friends i've to change my valve lifters at 180.000 kilometres. now my question. what else should i change ...
  1. #1
    Adrian12's Avatar
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    Exclamation v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    hi cadillac friends

    i've to change my valve lifters at 180.000 kilometres.
    now my question. what else should i change when i put parts off the engine to change the lifters? are there any parts that should be changed too?

    is it necessary to put heads off and change piston rings and so on?
    the caddy drives very well, no burner but a cool cruiser so only the click click click is horrible --> valve lifters.

    thanks a lot for your help and ideas how to make my engine long-living for the next 20 years (it should be my daily driver)

    thanks and greets from Austria (Europe)
    adrian

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    deVille33 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    What is 180.000 kilometres? around 200,000 mi? I'm not sure, but I would check your engine oil pressure. Lifter click can be caused by low oil pressure. I have seen lifters wear through the lifter face, but not on a Cadillac engine. At that point the cam was wasted also.
    Not that you don't need lifter, but I'd do a little investigating first.

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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    Quote Originally Posted by deVille33 View Post
    What is 180.000 kilometres? around 200,000 mi? I'm not sure, but I would check your engine oil pressure. Lifter click can be caused by low oil pressure. I have seen lifters wear through the lifter face, but not on a Cadillac engine. At that point the cam was wasted also.
    Not that you don't need lifter, but I'd do a little investigating first.

    how can i check oil pressure? i've no gauge... oil pressure indicator is lightening on ignition on and when i stop engine (only for a half second light goes on)

    thanks a lot

    adrian

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    BRUCE ROE is online now Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    That engine almost certainly needs a new timing chain set. They put cam sprockets with plastic teeth on at the factory. Bruce Roe CLC # 14630

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    deVille33 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    You can get an oil gauge at any autoparts store, sometimes they come with a kit with all the fittings and line you need for installation. If a kit dosen't come with it, you can make your own. Above the oil pump there is a pipe plug. I believe it is 3/8". Remove the plug and install your pipe threaded fitting. Attach line or make up steel line to fit at fitting and gauge.
    Another approach, use a 3/8" pipe threaded nipple, then attach a fuel line to the nipple and run the length to another nipple with the proper fitting to attach to the gauge.
    Total cost shouldn't be more than $28.00 and you have a useful tool.

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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    sooo

    i did some changes:
    new standard lifters in
    cleaned pushrods (into the holes was durt and i got it only out with 10 bar air)
    cleaned rocker arms and solenoids


    water pump, timing chain, oil pump, piston-rings, head gasket i'd like to change during next winter...

    i saw something interesting on summitracing.com... they offer different lifters (i took the cheapest ones for 4 USD ea.) and they offer some other camshafts...

    when i open the engine in winter, are some other lifters and camshaft an option to get a little more torque or power?

    i'd like to put an other 4-speed transmission into the car (maybe an other rear axle ratio) to get a smoother highway feeling with 140 km/h(about 90 - 100 miles)

    i'd like to have more power on accerlating from 0, and a smooth economic ride on highway with 120-160 km/h (therefore i plan a 4-speed with a longer rear axle ratio - 1rst gear should have enough power with long rear axle ratio and on highway rpm on 160 should be down enough for the smooth ride)


    i hope i can get some ideas and helps for this plan

    thanks a lot very very much and sunny greets from Austria

    adrian

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    deVille33 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    If you go back to 1969 service manuals, you find descriptions on repair ( cleaning of lifters.) It obviously was a common practice at one point. I guess the aftermarket, with it's cheaper lifters, made this practice obsolete. Your cheaper lifters are made in Asia somewhere and may not have the properly hardened face of original lifters, so may not last as long and may cause damage to your engine by the amount of metalic residue shedded from the face of the lifter.
    Did you check your camshaft's lobes to ensure they weren't excessively worn?
    I wish you good luck, but I have my reservations.

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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    !80,000 K is about 108,000 miles, not a lot, but the timing sprocket plastic teeth are old and brittle, and you shouldn't put off changing for too long.

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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    hi

    today i'll complete engine with the few changed parts.... this summer i'd like to drive the car only some times (maybe 1000 km or almost 2000 km but not more).

    but next year i'd like to have it as daily driver... so in winter i'm going to rebuild my engine completely. does anybody know what parts i should buy (i dont want to buy shit and less quality).

    what possibilities do i have with a 4-speed transmission? i think it would drop RPM and gets a perfect milage.

    what transmission is ready for bolt on and "strong" enough to handle the small 368 DFI engine?

    and what about more torque on lower RPM on accerlating? is an other camshaft useful?

    thanks for all your help

    adrian

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    deVille33 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    If you look at a Cadillac stock camshaft, you find a very conservative cam. Not a lot of lift, realtively short duration, and the cam has no aggressive profile, and virtually little or no overlap of valve opening. There may be some cams for sale by other cam manufacturers designated as "economy" or "towing" which have more conservative profiles, but not by much.
    Basically, I would check the cam lobes, I don't remember if the SM gives you the cam specs no not. I think not. I set the cam on V-blocks and use a dial indicator and record the lifts on each lobe. Paying attention to exhaust or intake relative to each. If there is a variable of more than .010 between the exhaust or the intakes, replace the cam. I used to like the Crane blueprinted replacement cams, but they've discontinued a lot of these cams.
    The Cadillac drive train has been well thought out by the engineers who put this package together. If you want to go with an overdrive transmission, your going to have to concider changing the gears in your rear axle. Your O.D. trans won't shift into O.D. because of the gearing. This subject has been covered here onother threads. Read some of them and reason it out.

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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    hi again

    after lots of searching, reading and learning i'm planning a small overhaul on my engine during winter..

    the clicking could be the exhaust manifold gasket - the noise is only passenger side at the rear of the block (near firewall)....
    engine burns oil out of exhaust (on an other thread me was explained these are the valve stem gaskets)
    engine looses oil out of head gasket...

    so i'm going to buy:
    * fel pro gasket set including (ebay 50 USD):
    Sheetmetal intake gasket kit
    valve cover gaskets
    PermaTorque Head Gaskets
    Exhaust manifold gaskets
    timing cover gasket and seal kit
    oil pan gasket kit
    water pump gasket
    fuel pump gasket
    oil pump gaskets.
    * water pump (rockauto 7 USD)
    * valve stem seal set (rockauto 23 USD)


    but i've serveral questions:
    but i dont know where to buy a timing set (timing sprockets and chain) and WHAT should i buy? there are different parts?
    should i replace my piston rings too (mileage)? if yes what parts should i buy and where?
    what other parts should i replace too (if i replace piston rings i open oil pan - are there parts to change?)

    lifters are new, cam is ok, so i wouldnt buy new...

    thanks a lot for all your help

    adrian

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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    Timing sets are available through NAPA or Advance.
    The smoking is another matter. You can change valve seals without taking the heads off, but you need some specialty tools. If you have a Snap-On compression tester, you can fill the cylinder with air with both valves of the cylinder closed. Air leaking to the exhaust means your exhaust valve isn't properly seating or worn. If air is going to the crankcase ( remove the oil filler cap, you'll feel the air) Your rings are the problem. If you've removed the exhaust manifold, you can block the exhaust port, turn the engine until the exhaust valve starts to open. Air working past the stem indicates excessive clearance at the stem. You can do the same with the intake valve with the intake manifold removed.
    Oil seals keep excess oil above the spring retainer from working down the stem. These seals dry out and if things at the top of the stem move around too much, they will crack and fall off. You can find broken seals sitting on the top of the cylinder head under the valve cover. To replace the seals without removing the head, you can fill the cylinder with air ( provided your rings don't leak and the cylinder will hold 60# pressure ) with both valves closed. You need a screw type or a lever type valve spring compressor to compress the valves. The screw type works better, if it will work in this area, because it stays in position so both hands are free. While there, check the retainer and locks to ensure there is no fatigue or cracking.

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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    Quote Originally Posted by deVille33 View Post
    Timing sets are available through NAPA or Advance.
    The smoking is another matter. You can change valve seals without taking the heads off, but you need some specialty tools. If you have a Snap-On compression tester, you can fill the cylinder with air with both valves of the cylinder closed. Air leaking to the exhaust means your exhaust valve isn't properly seating or worn. If air is going to the crankcase ( remove the oil filler cap, you'll feel the air) Your rings are the problem. If you've removed the exhaust manifold, you can block the exhaust port, turn the engine until the exhaust valve starts to open. Air working past the stem indicates excessive clearance at the stem. You can do the same with the intake valve with the intake manifold removed.
    Oil seals keep excess oil above the spring retainer from working down the stem. These seals dry out and if things at the top of the stem move around too much, they will crack and fall off. You can find broken seals sitting on the top of the cylinder head under the valve cover. To replace the seals without removing the head, you can fill the cylinder with air ( provided your rings don't leak and the cylinder will hold 60# pressure ) with both valves closed. You need a screw type or a lever type valve spring compressor to compress the valves. The screw type works better, if it will work in this area, because it stays in position so both hands are free. While there, check the retainer and locks to ensure there is no fatigue or cracking.
    wooow thats a cool description for future work thanks a lot.
    i must take heads off (head gasket is worn) but i love this trick and maybe i'll try it out on other cars hehe

    adrian

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    Re: v864 v8 6.0 rebuild or only change parts?

    hi again

    during winter i didnt have time to do the engine job but now plannig parts is nearly finished....

    the only thing i dont know is the cam....

    i found different cams on summitracing or ebay but dont know what cam i could buy for getting out little more torque.
    nobody drives a cad with high rpm - i always got the feeling that on higher rpm there is nothing on power....

    i dont know much about Duration and Lift, only theory but no idea what to buy... i want to keep MD 8-6-4 with the DFI.

    maybe someone could suggest me a cam?
    what about
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadil...Q5fAccessories
    or
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cadil...Q5fAccessories

    what duration and/or lift do i have to think about?

    sry for the noob question

    adrian

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