5.0 and 5.7 Discussion, Amsoil... in Cadillac Engine Discussion; Personally, I still would stick with a CI-4 spec oil. Amsoil has a few, I would personally recommend having the ...
- 11-11-06 12:24 AM #31
Personally, I still would stick with a CI-4 spec oil. Amsoil has a few, I would personally recommend having the higher levels of ZDDP still.
- 12-09-06 08:28 AM #32Cadillac Owners Member
- Join Date
- Dec 2005
dont use amsoil, i live in superior, the home base of amsoil. Al Amatuzio stole the formula. Original stuff was called all proof, but was never patented. Amsoil has very poor business practices. I've run mobil one in three 78 cad 425's, 84 4.1 eldo (with 150,000) on original 4.1, 89 4.5, 91 4.9, 94 and 96 eldo's, and 2001 deville all to well over 125,000 miles all with no internal engine problems what so ever. If GM puts mobil one it in the corvettes and cts-v it must be good stuff
- 12-09-06 11:34 AM #33
I have never even heard an thought to the idea was swiped. Any documentation on it? (not saying I don't believe you, but I have never heard anything on it ever)
That is the problem with patents. If you don't patent it, you risk losing it. Now, if you DO document it, and have a witness sign and date and you sign and date, you have a legal document in court ot fight theft of it. Always document your ideas.
Honestly, I am willing to bet 1 synthetic (Group IV) to the next is soooo close that it would be nearly impossible to detect the wear difference in an ENGINE (not a "wear test" that does not simulate anything inside and engine). So it just comes down to your favorite brand is what is important.
GM is going to source who meets their spec AND cost. Amsoil can't compete with Mobil 1. Their business model won't allow it. Until they ditch the MLM, they are doomed to be a small not terribly well respected company. Remember, GM didn't put in Mobil 1 for wear, they did it so they could remove the oil cooler. They needed the improve oil performance over the pertroleum oil performance with an oil cooler. Oil coolers are a cost to install, they can leak, so they can be a warranty issue. Voila, GM solved 2 issues with going to Mobil 1. If it costs $10 to put in the oil cooler, $10 for warranty per car for oil leaks or other issues, and it only costs $5 to change over to Mobil 1 in the car (you think GM is gonna pay retail?). They MADE money by going to Mobil 1....
Honestly looking at the bottle specs, Mobil 1 and Walmart "supertech" oil are awfully similar. Makes me wonder... SuperTech 5W30, like Mobil 1, is one of the very few synthetics that meets CF spec at all. Most all so called synthetics don't meet CF spec (diesel). If it doesn't meet any part of the diesel spec, I won't run it. Anyone know?
- 12-09-06 05:49 PM #34
Yah know this board kills me. All the discussion, comparison and so on. I become convinced that Amsoil is the greatest thing on earth, spend $50 to change the oil in 1 of my cars and then you guys do this crap.
Same thing happened with my Volant CAI. Everyone talked it up made it sound great and as soon as I got one and installed it everyone was telling me I wasted my money.
WTF. I'm really starting to get pissed.
- 12-09-06 06:06 PM #35
I am not saying it is bad product, quite the contrary, probably the best synthetic oil out there. BUT, I am frustrated at the business model. I used to be able to pickup most grades at the local NAPA, now I can't, NAPA is ditching them. Frustrating....
If I had the $$, all my vehicles would be running Amsoil (my Cad does have 75W90 gear oil now and Amsoil ATF in the power steering).
How much better is the question. No one really knows. I honestly haven't had the $$ to afford $9 per quart of Amsoil HDD 5W30. So I have to use Walmart SuperTech 5W30 or Mobil 1 5W30. The price is so inflated to cover the MLM stuff.
- 12-09-06 07:13 PM #36
- 12-09-06 09:12 PM #37Cadillac Owners Fanatic
- Automobile(s): 1979 Coupe Deville
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
Wasn't there a guy that got 600,000+ miles out of a 70's Caddy 425 (Guinness record holder) before it needed a rebuild? I'd like to track him down and find out what oil he was using. That's probably the oil I would go with.
- 12-10-06 05:05 AM #38
Can't argue with 600K....
Mine LT1 is at 208K now, it likely ran petrolum oil up to 140K and I run synthetic from time to time since. Doesnt burn at all, a leaks a little at the rear seal....
- 12-10-06 10:50 AM #39
- 12-10-06 01:05 PM #40
AMSOIL's MLM method does turn a lot of people off and gives the company a bad reputation in many circles, but I tend to look at it in another way. The founder of AMSOIL, Al Amatuzio was a former USAF fighter pilot and squadron commander. He noted his jets used synthetic lubricants and felt that the benefits of synthetic could be brought to the automotive market. When he retired he started his own company and marketed the first synthetic to exceed API standards. As a retired military officer, he did not have the deep pockets of the big oil companies. I believe he chose to market his product at a lower startup cost using the MLM method. Many reputable companies use this method including Mary Kay, Snap-On, Discovery Toys, etc. AMSOIL has been using this method successfully for over three decades now. He has been recognized by many reputable publications for his push for synthetics in the marketplace and I personally feel that without AMSOIL, you wouldn't be seeing as many synthetics on the market today as you do. Here is a sample:
At this point, AMSOIL has something like 80,000 plus dealers nationwide. Of these, about 400 or so that have taken the time to become certified dealers (by completing a course of study on lubrication) and reached sales levels to become qualified as AMSOIL Direct Jobbers (I'm one of them). AMSOIL is very loyal to this dealer network. A few years ago a large retail chain offered AMSOIL a very large contract ( something like $40 million) to carry AMSOIL. AMSOIL declined the offer.
I also feel their corporate method is to gain sales by making a better product. Mobil 1 is a good oil, but they are beholded to a board of directors and share holders. AMSOIL is not. A few years ago, Mobil 1 released a new line of oil called Extended Performance oils. At the time they advertised that this new line had about 50% more anti-wear additives and detergents than the base Mobil 1. If they felt Mobil 1 was so good, why did they release this new line of oil? I believe it was because of loss of market share to AMSOIL. FYI, Mobil 1 EP is rated by Mobil for 15k miles of use, AMSOIL’s main line of SAE synthetics is rated for 25k miles of use (or one year whichever comes first). Here is a sample of articles mentioning the differences in corporate philosophy:
Motor Drain Intervals: How Long Must We Wait?
Motor Oil Drain Intervals: An Ethical Burden?
In answer to some of the comments above about all synthetics being nearly equal, I don’t believe that to be true either, but that is a matter of scale. As I mentioned above, an oil is made up of two main constituents; its basestock and its additives. As can be seen from Mobil’s own advertisements, their base Mobil 1 had about 50% less anti-wear and detergent additives than their newer EP. That, in my opinion is a fairly wide variance. If you want to see how that translates to different performance in several oil performance related metrics, read these AMSOIL commissioned studies:
Comparative Motor Oil Test Nov 05
Comparative Motor Oil Test Dec 03
I do feel that translates to improved performance in real world applications as well. This is a used oil analysis report from one of my customers cars, in this case a 99 Corvette C5 Fixed Rood Coue (predecessor to the Z06):
Corvette C5 AMSOIL Series 2000 0w30 Used Oil Analysis Report
Note: The 1st sample was German Castrol Synthetic 0w30, the most recent two were AMSOIL Series 2000 Synthetic 0w30
Compare the levels of wear metals in his sample (primarily aluminum, iron, copper and lead) to the universal averages for that lab and that motor family). They are about 25-50% of the labs average for that motor family. As most of those samples submitted are probably using the factory fill Mobil 1, I feel this does validate improved real world performance of AMSOIL synthetics.
Finally, for those willing to order online, you can get AMSOIL products shipped directly to your house at wholesale pricing, the same price I pay as a dealer and about 20-25% under retail:
AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program
- 12-10-06 09:09 PM #41
- 12-10-06 10:57 PM #42Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
- Automobile(s): '76 Fleetwood Brougham, '79 Sedan deVille
- Join Date
- Aug 2004
Why on earth was this moved to the Chevy forums? The OP has a 425.
- 12-10-06 11:10 PM #43
- 12-13-06 01:11 PM #44
Mobil 1 Extended Performance has extra ZDDP in it. Valvoline Max Life does too, as well as the Max Life oil additive. On a '79 I'd run either a diesel 15-40 or Max Life 10w-30 or 40.
Amsoil is pricey and a '79 is past the point where it would see any benefit from running a sythetic, plus yeah, they like the MLM sales model (think Mary Kay or Amway for oil). .02.
- 12-13-06 01:40 PM #45
Amway?? Yuk! They got such a bad name they changed it and are like all web stores now. Ugly....
Are they allowed to have extra ZDDP in if it is a SM spec oil? Isn't that against the SM spec?
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