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5.0 and 5.7 Discussion, 93 Brougham still has problems in Cadillac Engine Technical Discussion; OK so I got my new AC Delco module and installed it. Cleaned the backing plate real nice, gobbed the ...
  1. #16
    codewize's Avatar
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    OK so I got my new AC Delco module and installed it. Cleaned the backing plate real nice, gobbed the grease and cleaned the cap and rotor contacts. The car runs 100% better. Much better throttle response. I can actually put some rubber on the road again

    I also checked the timing after installation. In my previous post you may have seen that I mentioned something about the idle changing every few seconds? Well so does the timing. About every 10 seconds the idle drops and the timing moves about 3 - 5 deg. Then a few seconds later it goes back and that continually happens very consistently.

    Now I will also say that there is still a small hesitation coming off of closed throttle.

    The final thing I have noticed is that at exactly 48 MPH, if I stay steady at that speed the car surges and acts like it's bucking in some way. Almost like I'm running out of gas. Could that be the converter?

  2. #17
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    Most often I would expect that symptom to be lean condition. EGR maybe turning on then, and when EGR is on, the fuel mixture is often leaned out some.

    Timing is set properly? Timing will change at idle, but not in timing set mode (EST line disconnected or the ALDL connector jumpered, whichever it is on this car). So that is why it must be disabled to set the initial timing.

    Low timing will cause hesitation. Interesting that it is at 48 mph. Is that TCC lockup speed? Does it still do it if you slightly depress the brake pedal when you accelerate up to 48 mph? Note you want only the brake lights to just come on to do this, basically it just disables power to the TCC circuit.

  3. #18
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    Timing will change at idle, but not in timing set mode (EST line disconnected or the ALDL connector jumpered, whichever it is on this car). So that is why it must be disabled to set the initial timing.

    Timing does vary just a touch in bypass mode. I noticed it while I was checking the setting. And it goes right along with the idle.

    Low timing will cause hesitation. Interesting that it is at 48 mph. Is that TCC lockup speed?

    That's what I was wondering. You have to be steady at that speed, it's not noticed when you're accelerating.

    Does it still do it if you slightly depress the brake pedal when you accelerate up to 48 mph? Note you want only the brake lights to just come on to do this, basically it just disables power to the TCC circuit.

    I will check this out tomorrow.

  4. #19
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    Actually.... We're seeing power losses, but the engine sounds healthy? Could it be the tranny or rear end? If either one slips, could be feeling like a loss of power.... And being a 93, she's old enough to have a worn diff, or weak torque converter. The rear end on mine leaks and is heading downhill, and my Fleetwood's been feeling slower since.

  5. #20
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    N0DIH, I tried the thing with the break but I couldn't really tell what was going on. I couldn't get the car to really do the surging thing enough to diag it.

    I really am feeling like it might be the tranny or torque converter and here's why. The rear is brand new. It was just rebuilt axles and all. Plus some of the other symptoms are, during hi-way or normal speed driving, when letting off the throttle the car jerks like you slammed the throttle shut and does the same thing when you go back on the gas. I always felt like it was a injector thing but now I'm not so sure. It doesn't do this everytime but a lot of the time.

    Does that bring us any closer?


    Quote Originally Posted by ShadowLvr400
    Actually.... We're seeing power losses, but the engine sounds healthy? Could it be the tranny or rear end? If either one slips, could be feeling like a loss of power.... And being a 93, she's old enough to have a worn diff, or weak torque converter. The rear end on mine leaks and is heading downhill, and my Fleetwood's been feeling slower since.

  6. #21
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    codewize, I'll definately lean towards it being something in the tranny. Exactly what, I'm not sure since I don't know the 4l60 very well, but I think there, especially with hard reactions on throttle changes.

  7. #22
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    Ok so my next step is going to be to have the tranny serviced. We'll see if that helps. Maybe just a clogging filter or something. Fluid looks and smells fine but I haven't done anything with the trans since I've owned the car. Almost 100k miles.I'll keep you posted

  8. #23
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    I would highly recommend installing a tranny cooler, if indeed some work is required. I just bought a Permacool, I bought one rated for 2 sizes larger than I needed. Works quite well, I can feel it in the shifts, especially sitting in traffic. If you have to do some tranny work, it'll help keep the newly repaired unit running better for longer.

    Brian

  9. #24
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    I don't have a 93 FSM, can someone look at the pinout of the ALDL connector? On some models, pins A & F are the lockup converter. You can stick a DMM/DVM in those 2 pins and watch when the ECM is locking up the converter, and see if you can correlate the feel with the converter. Might help some.

    I agree on cooler, my 301 Turbo T/A was just not feeling right in the trans when hot, put in a 20000# (single row, 12" x 8" or so)gross cooler and worked perfect ever since. I have upgraded it to a 30000# (2 rows thick, 18"x12" or so, was a bear to install I can tell you that!) now and put the 20000# on my 91 Bonneville (sold now). Well worth it.

  10. #25
    codewize's Avatar
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    I would like to try seeing when the converter is locking up. I do think there is a tranny problem or converter. I also am feeling like I'm back to square one with this, like all the gain I've made with improving the symptoms seem to have gone back to being crap over the last couple days.

    I think I'm going to do the CAT and see what happens. It's just to weird. There is no way that with all these new parts the car can run like it does. It feels like its being held back by something.

    I just don't know how to describe it. I can't tell if the trannys messed up or if it feels that way because the engine isn't right. Very aggravating.

  11. #26
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    Ok I have some more good solid info. When the engine is cold and it's cold out, below 65 deg or so, the car acts like it has a cam in it.

    I get down the street just a mile or so and stop at the light and while I'm holding the brake the engine is surging like it's all cammed up but real extreme and for longer durations. Like it holds high idle for a second or so then drops and then goes high again. Once the car is warmed up this doesn't happen.

    Could this all be a vacuum leak. Is there a vacuum to the trans on this car?

    I really hate to keep bugging about this thing but this is the first good piece of solid data I can reproduce in a long time.

  12. #27
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    Re: 93 Brougham still has problems

    If you disconnect the coolant sensor (I think it is in the thermostat housing on these engines, but not sure), how does it run?

    Is the TV cable adjusted properly? This is something that needs to be done every six months in my book. Cables do stretch over time, so this adjusts for that.

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