Wait4me vs professional tuner?
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17
Like Tree5Likes
2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Wait4me vs professional tuner? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; I'm new to my 6 spd MT 2011 Vagon and about to start modding, after hours of forum research I've ...
  1. #1
    AussiePete is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2011 CTS-V Wagon
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    39

    Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    I'm new to my 6 spd MT 2011 Vagon and about to start modding, after hours of forum research I've decided to do it in two phases: 1) Airraid and Corsa Sport with no tune. 2) Upper pulley, headers, 160 deg stat, heat x-changer and tune. Phase 2 I'll do in 10K miles when the stock warranty expires.

    My question is on turnign. As far as tunes go, should I find a professional tuner in San Diego / SoCal or just contact Wait4Me (or Diablo Sport etc)?? I've read great things about Wait4Me on older posts but not much of late. This is a daily driver, I'm doing phase 1 just to wake things and 2 to get around 500 rwhp, give or take.

    cheers
    Vwagon2012 likes this.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    CadillacForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Random84's Avatar
    Random84 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): Founder, OBWC
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    534

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    Although I'm sure there's nothing wrong with Wait4Me "tweaking" the DiabloSport canned tune... you also pointed out that there is a difference between the canned version and a "professional" tune.

    Given your out-of-pocket costs are going to be similar (you have to buy a DiabloSport or other device to upload the tune, plus pay the online guy for his work), and that you have power-goals in mind, I would highly encourage you to use a professional with a dyno and/or street tune via a respected local shop.

    There's often a few dozen horsepower difference between online stuff and in-person stuff, but of course the online guys will be here shortly to disagree. The only exception I'll make is for Jeremy Formato based on reputation alone; and even then you're spending similar amounts of money.

    I would only use an online/remote tuner IF you cannot find a trustworthy tuner locally.

  4. #3
    Gary Wells is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): '09 CTS-V, 3K miles & '87 Turbo Buick, 29K miles
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Long Beach, Kali
    Age
    70
    Posts
    3,197

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    Ryne Cunningham @ Cunningham Motor Sports (CMS) in Lake Elsinore.

  5. #4
    baabootoo is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): Blue/Titanium 2009 V Auto
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Racine, WI
    Posts
    2,994

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    I use a Wait4Me tune from an SCT, and my tuner said he wouldn't be able to do any better, so I left it. This is a late post.......

  6. #5
    wait4me's Avatar
    wait4me is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 11v,2 09 v's,2 05 v's,5 GTM supercars,viper,volt,2012 karma
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    warsaw indiana
    Posts
    2,965

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    If you give the computer the ability to adjust on its own to the set points where you know it makes the best power and safety, then you wont get much more out of a tune from someone in person.

    Sct handhelds I can adjust, so if you do go to the dyno, Just email the dyno graph over, and can tweak it even more to bring it right in line.

    There are over 2000 people running my programs on just these 2009-2013 cts v now since October 2008. That is a lot of tuned Vs....
    And here we are almost 5 years later with no issues with the handheld tunes.

    Previous issues where people not getting their tunes via email, but all they had to do was get a free yahoo account and the files show up instantly.. Due to being blocked for large file sizes..

  7. #6
    baabootoo is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): Blue/Titanium 2009 V Auto
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Racine, WI
    Posts
    2,994

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    I love the idea that I can change them myself too!
    AussiePete likes this.

  8. #7
    Chrispy's Avatar
    Chrispy is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2014 ATS Luxury
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    520

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    I've heard nothing but good things about Jessies hand held tunes.

    I would NOT recommend Corsa sports with headers though....It'll be ridiculously loud.

  9. #8
    AussiePete is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2011 CTS-V Wagon
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    39

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    Thanks for all the responses, I am leaning towards a Wait4Me tune as I too like the idea I can change them myself, and more convenient as there doesn't appear to be any good tuners in San Diego.

    Are there any differences from a warranty voiding perspective? Is there such a thing as a Stealth tune, or a backup of the stock OEM tune I can revert back to and the dealership is none the wiser?

    @Chris, yep I've read the same, that both would be ridiculously loud. That sounds good to me.

  10. #9
    SilverrV is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2009 CTS-V
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Posts
    54

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    wait for me claims his are stealth but i never pulled the trigger

  11. #10
    Luna. is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2005 Stealth Gray CTS-V, 2009 Black CTS-V
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    3,534

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    Quote Originally Posted by Random84 View Post
    I would only use an online/remote tuner IF you cannot find a trustworthy tuner locally.
    This times 1,000....

  12. #11
    Random84's Avatar
    Random84 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): Founder, OBWC
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    534

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    Quote Originally Posted by AussiePete View Post
    Are there any differences from a warranty voiding perspective? Is there such a thing as a Stealth tune, or a backup of the stock OEM tune I can revert back to and the dealership is none the wiser?
    Both W4M and DiabloSport claim that they are undetectable; however you have to realize that A: you are, in fact, purposefully voiding the warranty to modify/tune the car; B: to my knowledge neither of these tuners have been tested to those claims (meaning someone getting a new engine under warranty with a W4M or DS tune on the car), and C: you're really saying "Hey, I want to modify the car - but I fully expect to con GM out of the cost of repairs if something happens to my engine or transmisison."

    You want to steal a free warranty for GM, or potentially a free motor replacement, by getting the insurance policy without honoring the terms when you get a "stealth" tune. That's really what we're saying here (I understand it, but let's be honest about what it is).

    Yeah, we all want to modify our cars and yea we all want the most power we can get; but I like to remind people that everyone's integrity has a price. So it's up to you - but the black and white answer is that yes, tuning the car is voiding the powertrain warranty from GM's perspective, as well as the virtual contract you took with GM when you bought the car. But this is only engine/trans and possibly differential; the remaining coverage would likely be honored as being "unrelated" to your modifications.

    Now, the gray answer is that, in the real world, they often don't check for tunes for many repairs, sometimes dealers "work with you" on overlooking the modifications if they are found, and there are always ways to cheat - but that is NOT the same as GM Corporate being okay with it if you are honest and upfront when something goes wrong (and GM is expected to write the $15,000 check for you)... these are subtle differences you need to consider. Realistically, it probably won't be an issue either way for a variety of reasons, one being the very good reliability of the CTSV engine. You want to say "eh, GM can afford it?" Well, then the price of your honor is about two thousand dollars or so.

    Just remember that people have biases: tuners always want to sell you a tune, dealers always want to sell you a car, Car Enthusiasts always want to sell you their brand/car/mod as the best, etc. Your mileage may vary.
    Luna. and AussiePete like this.

  13. #12
    dqw1's Avatar
    dqw1 is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2009 CTS-V
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Madison, AL
    Age
    52
    Posts
    2,004

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    Raise your hand if after you tuned/modded your car you went back to the service department and told them to void parts of your warranty because your a straight up an honest dude. There has not been a lot of horror story's of warranty's being voided. It could happen but it's has not been the trend.

  14. #13
    flatrockguy is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2012 Raven V Sedan, M6, Graphite Rims, Yellow Brembos
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Age
    44
    Posts
    273

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    I have the curent document that is sent to all GM service departments pertaining to aftermarket tunes and how to detect them but it is too large to attach. Does anyone know a way to attach a file that exceeds the allowable limit??

  15. #14
    Random84's Avatar
    Random84 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): Founder, OBWC
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    534

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    Quote Originally Posted by dqw1 View Post
    Raise your hand if after you tuned/modded your car you went back to the service department and told them to void parts of your warranty because your a straight up an honest dude. There has not been a lot of horror story's of warranty's being voided. It could happen but it's has not been the trend.
    Whether or not you own up to your own actions is your problem.

    As for the part I've bolded: This is my point, exactly. It could plausibly happen, and is thus a consideration when we give free advice to the uninformed on the internet. Sure, you could go off about how you have a spare ECM, or how you had X, Y, and Z covered under warranty with your modded ride - but that doesn't mean it's good advice in the context of OP's questions, or that it's even ethical.

    Hell, I went 15 over on the interstate this weekend and didn't get caught - but that doesn't mean it's appropriate for me to tell everyone on the internet that "Nah, it's totally cool, nobody ever gets a ticket for 15 over!" It was my choice to make; that doesn't make it the best advice for me to give others unless I'm willing to take ownership for that bad advice.

    People falsify their tax returns all the time and don't get caught; would you recommend OP do that too?

    Likewise, it's a common theme on enthusiast websites for individuals (and tuners) to cavalierely discuss cheating the warranty on expensive vehicles - but at the end of the day it's still purposeful theft and a willful intent of deceiving the seller (in this case, GM) whether you get caught or not.

    I'm just countering to the almost impulsive chorus of "do it!" that these kinds of questions spur. Every once in a while someone loses an engine outside of warranty, and it's a stressful/expensive thing to go through; so OP needs to know the potential risks before he jumps in feet-first. As adults, we all get to make our own choices - and we're generally very, very good at drumming up convenient justifications for our actions... I'm just offering up a different perspective.


  16. #15
    flatrockguy is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): 2012 Raven V Sedan, M6, Graphite Rims, Yellow Brembos
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Metro Detroit
    Age
    44
    Posts
    273

    Re: Wait4me vs professional tuner?

    Here is a portion of the document that pretty much sums it up. Sorry for the long read.

    | Document ID: 3287408#09-06-04-026G: Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket) Engine and Transmission Calibrations forV6 and V8 Gasoline Engines Using Tech 2 or Global Diagnostic System 2 (GDS 2) - (Mar 19,2013)Subject:Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket) Engine and TransmissionCalibrations for V6 and V8 Gasoline Engines Using Tech 2® orGlobal Diagnostic System 2 (GDS 2)Models:2006-2014 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks — EquippedWith Any V8 Gasoline Engine2012-2014 Chevrolet Camaro — Equipped With V6 Engine RPO LFXAttention:This Bulletin is effective beginning February 4, 2013. This bulletinapplies to the above V6 and V8 gasoline engines ONLY. ForDuramax™ diesel engines, refer to the latest version of CorporateBulletin Number 08-06-04-006. Always refer to the GM ServicePolicy and Procedures Manual — Article: 1.2.2.12 for the latest GMPolicy and Procedures Information.This bulletin is being revised to add the 2014 model year, a Table of Contents, add Notice bulletsto Section 1. for GM Requires and GM Recommends the CVN Procedure being performed,revise Sections 2. and 3. as Overview Information, add a Notice at the end of Section 4. andSection 6., revise Sections 8., 8.A., 8.B., 9., 10. and 11. and update the information includingadding additional graphics. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 09-06-04-026F (Section06 – Engine/Propulsion System).
    Table of Contents
    1.
    1. Engine, Transmission, Transfer Case, Rear Axle Components and CatalyticConverter Failures Due to Non-GM Engine and/or Transmission Control ModuleCalibrations Being Installed — Including GM Calibration Verification Requiresand Recommends Notices
    2.
    Overview of Calibration Retrieval and Calibration Verification Procedure forService Agents NOT REQUIRED to Call PQC for Powertrain/DrivetrainAssembly Replacement Authorization
    3.
    Overview of Calibration Retrieval and Calibration Verification Procedure forService Agents REQUIRED to Call PQC for Powertrain/Drivetrain AssemblyReplacement Authorization
    4.
    Retrieving Engine Calibration ID and Verification No. (Number) InformationUsing the Tech 2® - This Action is Required for ALL Service Agents (ModelDependent)
    5.
    Tech 2® Displaying All Zeroes for the Verification Numbers on the VehicleInformation - Calibration ID and Verification No. (Number/CVN) Screen
    6.
    Retrieving Calibration Information From Global A Vehicles Using GDS 2 - ThisAction is Required for ALL Service Agents (Model Dependent)
    7.
    Creating a JPEG (.jpg) File From a GDS 2 Calibration History Screen ShotUsing Microsoft Paint
    8.
    Calibration Verification Procedure — For Service Agents NOT REQUIRED toCall PQC for Powertrain/Drivetrain Assembly Replacement Authorization —Using the Tech 2® or GDS 28. A. Calibration Verification Procedure — Using the Tech 2®8. B. Calibration Verification Procedure — Using GDS 2
    9.
    Calibration Verification Procedure — For Service Agents REQUIRED to CallPQC for Powertrain/Drivetrain Assembly Replacement Authorization — ThisProcedure MUST be Performed by the Calibrations Group
    10.
    Procedure for ALL Service Agents for E-mailing .jpg or JPEG Files to theCalibration Group at — TACCVN@gmexpert.com
    11.
    Calibrations Group - New E-mail Address - TACCVN@gmexpert.com
    12.
    Warranty Information
    ��
    1. Engine, Transmission, Transfer Case, Rear Axle Components and Catalytic Converter FailuresDue to Non-GM Engine and/or Transmission Control Module Calibrations Being Installed —Including GM Calibration Verification Requires and Recommends Notices
    Notice:
    ��
    Be advised that GM REQUIRES retrieving the Calibration Information andperforming the Calibration Verification Procedure as outlined in this Bulletin,whenever diagnostics determine a hard part failure may have occurred oninternal engine parts and BEFORE disassembly, repair or replacement of anengine assembly under warranty.
    ��
    Be advised that GM strongly RECOMMENDS retrieving the CalibrationInformation and performing the Calibration Verification Procedure as outlined inthis Bulletin, whenever diagnostics determine a hard part failure may haveoccurred on transmission, transfer case or rear axle components and BEFOREdisassembly, repair or replacement of a transmission, transfer case or rear axleassembly under warranty. It is also RECOMMENDED that the engine controlmodule Calibration Verification Procedure be performed whenever diagnosticsdetermine that catalytic converter replacement is necessary.
    ��
    While it is not a REQUIREMENT to verify transmission control modulecalibrations on gasoline engine applications, like it is with engine control modulecalibrations, they can still be verified in the same manner if it is necessary for anyreason.
    General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission and catalyticconverter part failures that are the result of non-GM (aftermarket) engine andtransmission control module calibrations being installed.When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control module calibrationsoccurs, it subjects powertrain and driveline components (engine, transmission, transfercase, driveshaft and rear axle) to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It isbecause of these unknown stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability andemissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy that prevents any
    UNAUTHORIZED
    Service Agent warranty Transaction submissions to any remainingwarranty coverage, to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the presence ofa non-GM calibration is confirmed – even if the non-GM control module calibration issubsequently removed.Warranty coverage is based on the equipment and calibrations that were released on thevehicle at time of sale, or subsequently updated by GM. That’s because GM testing andvalidation matches the calibration to a host of criteria that is essential to assure reliability,durability and emissions performance over the life of the warranty coverage and beyond.Stresses resulting from calibrations that are different from those tested and released byGM can damage and/or weaken components, leading to poor performance and/orshortened life.Additionally, non-GM issued engine control module modifications often do not meet thesame emissions performance standards as GM issued calibrations. Depending on statestatutes, individuals who install engine control module calibrations that put the vehicleoutside the parameters of emissions certification standards may be subject to fines and/orpenalties.This bulletin outlines the Calibration Retrieval and Calibration Verification Procedures
    for
    ALL Service Agents including Service Agents NOT Required to Call PQC forPowertrain/Drivetrain Assembly Replacement Authorization and Service AgentsRequired to Call PQC for Powertrain/Drivetrain Assembly Replacement Authorization,using the Tech 2® or GDS 2 to identify the presence of non-GM control modulecalibrations.If a non-GM calibration is found and verification has taken place through GM, theremaining powertrain and driveline warranty may be blocked and notated in GlobalWarranty Management (GWM) and the dealership will be notified. This block prevents
    any UNAUTHORIZED warranty claim submission.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting