Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine
Cadillac
 

Cadillac Forums | Help Us Help You | Advertise | Cadillac Parts | Cadillac News | Cadillac Classifieds / (Old System)

Cadillac Technical Archive | Cadillac Dealers | Cadillac Reviews | Cadillac Dealer Reviews | Cadillac Vendors

CadillacForums.com is the premier Cadillac Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 20
Like Tree5Likes
2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; I have a simple question. How much will I gain by going to a 160 thermostat on a stock 2012 ...
  1. #1
    Trainman SRT-10 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2012 CTS V Coupe, 6M
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bakersfield, Ca.
    Age
    67
    Posts
    72

    Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    I have a simple question. How much will I gain by going to a 160 thermostat on a stock 2012 CTS V coupe, 6-speed manual? I am also thinking about an Airaid CAI. I am located in Bakersfield where it gets really hot in the summer, but I am thinking about going out to Famoso this Friday(May 17th) for a test and tune event. High temps should be about 85 and down in the low 70's or high 60's by 10pm. We will run till midnight. Last time out I had a 12.37 with a best of 117.16 mph on stock tires. 60' on that run was 2.059. What is the best tire pressure on the stock tires?.....I think I may try 22 psi....any help appreciated.

  2. Remove Advertisements
    CadillacForums.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    nguyennhatquang is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): DeVille DHS, 2004 Mercedes C200K, V Coupe, BMW 750li
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ha Noi Viet Nam
    Age
    25
    Posts
    254

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    if u lower your car engine temp..u will damage CAT soon...

    You need your ECM tune..u can buy HP tunner to tune it yourself...mostly is make the fan run sooner at 160F...i have HP tunner and i play with it. It very easy to use.

    how much it will faster...i really don't know..because the rest of your car is stock and your car have 556hp like mine...i do not feel any different when i lower the temp of my car... May be it have too big engine...BUT if you delete CAT..like mine..put a header in it..you can feel the power...slightly more when acc....and the car easier to breath..

    BUT when you DELETE CAT like mine..you need to DISABLE rear O2 sensor..if not SES light will go on for P040xxx i don't remember exactly..it about Cat efficiency. Because the way the rear 02 work is it compare the value with the front.. the Front is for Fuel control mode. the rear is for Checking CAT.

    for the 3.6..i feel the car breather better in city..a little quicker...does it really faster or it just the feeling..i need to clock 0 to 60..for make sure..but for just the feeling..i feel it lithe quicker..(the car have small engine may be that is the reason i feel it)...

    you can try it just for the hell of it..because thermostat only worth about $20..and Hptunner is $650 for the rest of the vehicle life. If you buy other car..just buy credit and it cheap, you doesn't need to buy HPtuner kit again.
    but remember..before bring the car for warranty..paste the original EEPROM back...so Dealer can't track dow.

  4. #3
    Trainman SRT-10 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2012 CTS V Coupe, 6M
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bakersfield, Ca.
    Age
    67
    Posts
    72

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    Thanks, I'll definitely talk to a tuner before using the lower temp therm, as I have talked to my dealer and they will allow me to do a few basic mods (CAI, tune, exhaust, etc) and still keep my warranty.

  5. #4
    Trapspeed's Avatar
    Trapspeed is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 2009 CTS-V
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    2,364
    Quote Originally Posted by Trainman SRT-10
    Thanks, I'll definitely talk to a tuner before using the lower temp therm, as I have talked to my dealer and they will allow me to do a few basic mods (CAI, tune, exhaust, etc) and still keep my warranty.
    Leave the thermostat alone, IMO. Not somewhere I'd tinker with right away...if ever.

  6. #5
    nguyennhatquang is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): DeVille DHS, 2004 Mercedes C200K, V Coupe, BMW 750li
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ha Noi Viet Nam
    Age
    25
    Posts
    254

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    Thermostat as i was in school before ( i took GM class just for fun.. so i can play with mine)

    1st : Help the engine raise back to operating temp as soon as possible
    2nd : restrict the coolant flow..basically is it keep the coolant in the engine block a little longer to make heat transfer all to coolant before sent out to the radiator. That the book said. I saw a lot of racing car they just put a restrict ring instead of thermostat or some even don't

    i have a ague with my instructor about that..i asked him..so what happen if your hand get burn..you want to drop a slightly water in your hand..then let the water absorb all the heat before throw the water away or u want water in your hand as mush as you can...
    he didn't say anything..and we still ague about it.

    About me..personally.. just live and learn..learn then play..play and practice.

    personally mine i remove thermostat..didn't see any different... doesn't see engine break down like BOOK said..even i beat the hell out of it.. the 3.6 one. Only i see is the engine take longer to warm up..

    trust me..you just do whatever u feel like you want to do..all is experience... i believe lot of Tuner out there..they just live and learn..
    i get a lot of scare..like will damage your car bla bla.... but it still work fine....and day to day get more toy with my spirit.

    before i own a e65 750li..If i read everything on internet..or listen to people expericen.. i will never have a real time nice experience with this bimmer. It not worst like people try to say and scare us.. specially those mechanical out there. They just scare us..because if ALL OF US IS DIY..they will loose them job.


    if you lower your engine temp.. in theory..the car will run in RICH mode.. you can see it by the O2 sensor voltage. ( the first one)

    O2 Sensor
    Lean Indicator
    Vacuum leak
    Low Fuel Pump Pressure
    Clogged fuel Injector

    Hight voltage = Rich
    Low voltage = Lean

    Rich Indicator
    excessive fuel pressure
    leaking fuel injector
    leaking fuel pressure regulator

    so in theory..it dump more fuel in..make the air/fuel richer.. suppose to run faster..

  7. #6
    Trainman SRT-10 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2012 CTS V Coupe, 6M
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bakersfield, Ca.
    Age
    67
    Posts
    72

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    Thanks guys. I will talk with my tuner (Charlie at RPM Motors) before doing anything. I have had a 170 therm in my Ram SRT-10 almost since it was new, no problems at all. My engine runs at 180 and oil temp at 180 most of the time. I have one of the quickest stock engine SRT-10 Rams in the country, just exhaust work and tuning with major weight reduction on race day (11.63@118). I have had the SRT-10 (2004) since new and it has 66,000 miles ( but no cats ) and there are no problems with the engine (probably over 200+ passes down the 1/4 mile). I hadn't thought about the temp affecting the cats, good point.

  8. #7
    Chrispy's Avatar
    Chrispy is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
    Automobile(s): 2014 ATS Luxury
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    523

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    160 thermo is fine if you set the fans to come on lower accordingly. You'll lose less power from heatsoak and get more airflow across the heat exchanger from the fans operating earlier.

    Another good tip is to set the tune to run the intercooler pump in the acc position.

    After installing the 160 stat you will likely want to change your oil more frequently as you'll have generally lower oil temp in every day driving.

  9. #8
    6speeder is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): CTS-V
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Age
    59
    Posts
    293

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    "if you lower your engine temp.. in theory..the car will run in RICH mode.. you can see it by the O2 sensor voltage. ( the first one)"

    Not with a 160 thermostat. The car changes from open loop to closed loop and runs at 14.7 A/F at WAY lower temps than you will see with a 160 thermostat. You won't run richer. What you WILL see with a 160 stat is potentially a little more WOT power as the ECM pulls timing at higher ECT's. So, run a little cooler, get less timing pulled.

    Also, running a 160 Vs. a 187 degree thermostat WILL NOT affect the cats.
    Bubba Ho-Tep and Bubba Ho-Tep like this.

  10. #9
    wait4me's Avatar
    wait4me is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 11v,2 09 v's,2 05 v's,5 GTM supercars,viper,volt,2012 karma
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    warsaw indiana
    Posts
    2,985

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    Correct that the cats WILL NOT BE damaged from the cooler engine operating temperature. The Spark applied and fuel applied are what effect cat temp..

    Cats are more damaged from fuel quality and invalid tuning/misfires.

    160 is fine to run in any car that are effected by heat soak. Any decrease in temperature in the "OVEN" will help out.



    The reason why race cars put in a restrictor instead of a thermostat is so that the engines run cooler than what they would with a thermostat in place. A thermostat is basically a restrictor as well. The opening is LESS than the diameter of the housing. The only difference is between the two, are that the thermostat will close at a set time, and the restrictor never closes so therefore it acts like a 0 degree thermostat instead.. AS it can not close at any temp...


    Fan settings in the computer regulate the percent of fan rpm. So it is easy to target what you want. I say cooler the better.

    The temp settings for closed loop fueling are 176, which even though you run a 160 thermostat, you are always in the 170s range - 180s anyways.. However, with the correct tune settings, you can move that down to say 150, and you are all good...

  11. #10
    Trainman SRT-10 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2012 CTS V Coupe, 6M
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Bakersfield, Ca.
    Age
    67
    Posts
    72

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    Talked with my tuner and he said that these engines make the most power at 195-202 temps, so I will probably not change the therm for now. Thanks guys for all the input.

  12. #11
    6speeder is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): CTS-V
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Age
    59
    Posts
    293

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    Quote Originally Posted by wait4me View Post

    The temp settings for closed loop fueling are 176, which even though you run a 160 thermostat, you are always in the 170s range - 180s anyways.. However, with the correct tune settings, you can move that down to say 150, and you are all good...
    I don't know where you got that number, but my 2010 CTS-V goes from open loop to closed loop at an ECT of 102 F.

  13. #12
    2013CTSV is offline Cadillac Owners Member
    Automobile(s): 2013CTSV
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Posts
    55

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainman SRT-10 View Post
    Talked with my tuner and he said that these engines make the most power at 195-202 temps, so I will probably not change the therm for now. Thanks guys for all the input.
    Not so sure I agree with your tuner but to eachs own.

  14. #13
    wait4me's Avatar
    wait4me is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
    Automobile(s): 11v,2 09 v's,2 05 v's,5 GTM supercars,viper,volt,2012 karma
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    warsaw indiana
    Posts
    2,985

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    Quote Originally Posted by 6speeder View Post
    I don't know where you got that number, but my 2010 CTS-V goes from open loop to closed loop at an ECT of 102 F.
    Sorry, I was thinking 2000-2008 controllers, as I was tuning one while typing.

    The actual temps for this exact car is
    closed loop happens at 102F
    however, long term fuel trims are allowed at 95F as per the exact tune.

    ----------



    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Trainman SRT-10 View Post
    Talked with my tuner and he said that these engines make the most power at 195-202 temps, so I will probably not change the therm for now. Thanks guys for all the input.
    This is NOT VALID. I have tested tons and tons and tons of these EXACT cars, and they always make more horsepower the colder they are.
    Club Malibu and Club Malibu like this.

  15. #14
    nguyennhatquang is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): DeVille DHS, 2004 Mercedes C200K, V Coupe, BMW 750li
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Ha Noi Viet Nam
    Age
    25
    Posts
    254

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    Not with a 160 thermostat. The car changes from open loop to closed loop and runs at 14.7 A/F at WAY lower temps than you will see with a 160 thermostat. You won't run richer. What you WILL see with a 160 stat is potentially a little more WOT power as the ECM pulls timing at higher ECT's. So, run a little cooler, get less timing pulled.
    No, wrong. Close loops is when the Front O2 COLD. With the heating O2 sensor it heat the O2 sensor fast enough to react.

    even when you engine temp at 120F..with good heating O2 sensor...u still can see it run in CLose loop via TEch2.

    This is NOT VALID. I have tested tons and tons and tons of these EXACT cars, and they always make more horsepower the colder they are.
    this i totally agree with you..but for just a thermostat only on the V..may be he won't feel it..like mine..

    lower engine temp..mean u can dump more fuel..and more air... (supposedly) ...because the Air or fuel can compress more when it colder... (correct me if i was wrong, we 're learning here)

    i think 195 to 202 is the best for Emission is more CORRECT.


    PS..the reason i think it will damage the CAT is if you have a tool to check emission.. you will see emission go up...=> more harmful to CAT.

    After installing the 160 stat you will likely want to change your oil more frequently as you'll have generally lower oil temp in every day driving.
    i don't think it will effect the OIL change interval..because i saw people install OIL cooler in performance car all day...
    if they just want to set correct oil temp..why they need to do that... or install a Oil Heater..with thermostat (maybe)

  16. #15
    6speeder is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
    Automobile(s): CTS-V
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Age
    59
    Posts
    293

    Re: Will a 160 thermostst help a stock engine

    Quote Originally Posted by nguyennhatquang View Post
    No, wrong. Close loops is when the Front O2 COLD. With the heating O2 sensor it heat the O2 sensor fast enough to react.

    even when you engine temp at 120F..with good heating O2 sensor...u still can see it run in CLose loop via TEch2.
    I'm gonna presume English is a second language for you, and if so, you're doing better than I would in another language. To the point, you've got your temps wrong, mine goes into closed loop much sooner than it gets to 120F. Once a car warms up enough, (102F ECT for my 2010) including the heated O2 sensors, THEN it goes into closed loop, not when the O2's are cold.

    OP: As far as your tuner, he's got it wrong also. Have him look at the timing Vs. ECT tables, It'll show show much timing is pulled when the temps are in the 200+ range. BAD for making HP.

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Bookmarks

Cadillac Posting Rules

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Read about Lincoln | Buick | Kia Forte Forum
Need products for your Cadillac? Check out your options at the links below:

custom floor mats | Cadillac Chrome and Black Chrome Wheels | window tinting