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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; ---------- [/COLOR] Originally Posted by blaine321 23 psi....? Non forged stock internals? ANYTIME you play with 23 psi with STOCK ...
  1. #16
    CADZLA RETURNS is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

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    [/COLOR]
    Quote Originally Posted by blaine321 View Post
    23 psi....? Non forged stock internals? ANYTIME you play with 23 psi with STOCK PISTONS that ARE NOT FORGED you are really really taking a chance of a fried motor. Its always 100% on the owner to tune a stock block at that high of power. A single misfire can grenade a stock piston at those boost levels. RIP pistons... they never had a chance. You fried the cheap pistons.

    It sucks when it happens. And it happens to us all when you mod, but its a chance all HP junkies take. I've been threw about 5 blown motors on several different projects. Never is fun, but if your not prepared for the worst then you should stay stock.

    You PAY to PLAY.

    Only time a shop MIGHT pay for a blown motor is when they put the motor in with ALL THEIR recommended PARTS and they tuned it and it was discovered one of their parts caused the blown motor. Then maybe they'll take the bill.

    On a side note: Still think its pretty silly they didn't put forged pistons in the LSA motor... they put them in the cheap Cobra motors since 2003.
    Thanks for the feedback and your comments. Don't get me wrong and please don't misunderstand my intentions. I don't want, never did want Ed to pay for a new motor. I NEVER stated that anywhere. Hell, I didn't even demand that he pay any part of the expense of the heads being pulled, new gaskets and studs installed. I didn't even ask him to help with the labor, although it would have been great if he would have at least offered. I am just getting the word out of my experience with him and in general. I want guys to know they need to pay attention to what the tuner is doing, ask questions, make suggestions, etc. I suggested that we start out with lower boost, larger pulley (Ed states above he was well aware that I had three pulleys with me), but he said it would be ok. He knew I had 5 gallons of MS109, but he didn't suggest we use it. When I saw the 195+ IAT2s I insisted that we take a break and bleed the heat exchanger better. I suggested we wait longer between pulls to let it cool down more. All of my suggestions were shut down. I was told point blank "I know what I am doing. Let me do my job". The very next pull the antifreeze starting pouring out. I guess he didn't know what he was doing. And to make matters worse he lied to me about the compression being ok after he checked it. Three cylinders were down. This explains why he didn't push my car the next day on the dyno. He knew that damage was already done. If I knew how to tune I wouldn't have needed anyone. I counted on someone who I thought was a professional to get the job done. He failed. Period. I filled out a few page questionnaire for him that l had to list all mods, cam specs, pulley sizes, etc. etc. etc. (I think the form is on his site). I guess either he didn't look at it or didn't know what to do.
    I agree that GM should have put forged internals in the motor, even if they had to increase the price a few grand. But it is what it is. I'll have forged internals soon enough.
    Cheers!

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CJCTSV View Post
    It's laughable how much of an idiot you are cadzla.

    21 posts? Too funny!! Ed? Friend of Ed's? Ed's daughter? LOL. Trust me plenty of people believe me. I have been contacted by 5 guys already from this site that are/considering/on the fence about working with Ed. I tell them my story, offer to send them emails, screen shots of texts, contact info of several other guys who contacted me and will never work with Ed again, contact info of shop owner, copies of the tunes, etc. Then they make their own decision. They aren't paying attention to douche bags like you because ignorant people such as yourself are a dime a dozen on the forums. You have to jump on the band wagon to feel wanted/needed/tough. Go back and play on another forum where maybe you have 25 posts. Have a good rest of the week!
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  2. #17
    rayjoedef is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

    I get your frustration....I am not familiar with Ed so I will not comment. I had my car at a particular NJ tuner - holy shit. Build took 3x as long as promised and when I got car back it wasn't right. It was my fault that I didn't do enough dd to make an educated decision....In the end, I found a terrific tuner "Tune Time" in Lakewood who got the car dead balls on and I've never been happier. It's a leap a faith when you hand this large investment over to a tuner to mod your car. Nobody is as sensitive to the build and problems then us, the owners....I hope it all works out and sometimes a nice friendly conversation will go a long way....sometimes not so much.
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  3. #18
    CADZLA RETURNS is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

    Quote Originally Posted by rayjoedef View Post
    I get your frustration....I am not familiar with Ed so I will not comment. I had my car at a particular NJ tuner - holy shit. Build took 3x as long as promised and when I got car back it wasn't right. It was my fault that I didn't do enough dd to make an educated decision....In the end, I found a terrific tuner "Tune Time" in Lakewood who got the car dead balls on and I've never been happier. It's a leap a faith when you hand this large investment over to a tuner to mod your car. Nobody is as sensitive to the build and problems then us, the owners....I hope it all works out and sometimes a nice friendly conversation with go a long way....sometimes not so much.
    Thank you for your input. I am glad that you found a good tuner who got your car running great! I have learned that it's not easy to find a good competent tuner that takes his time, explains what he is doing, wants to know all the mods, etc. It seems like most just want to take your money, do a quick tune and move on to the next car. I have been extremely pleased with the local shop and tuner that I have been working with. They had my car on the dyno basically all day, started out slow, not WOT's right away, let it cool down for a good hour before the next pull. He told me exactly what was going on with timing, temps, AFR , boost, etc. He saw 1/2 degree of knock and back the timing off a bit and left it. I had to go back a couple of times for drive ability issue and idle problems and they have it dialed in pretty damn good now. You're right about it being a leap of faith when you hand over a $70k car with $20k worth of mods to someone who you hope can do the job. Unfortunately, I didn't find that someone soon enough. Before I decided to work with Ed I did some research (maybe not enough) and I really couldn't find anyone who posted negative experiences with him, so I gave him a shot. What I learned though is most guys that had bad experiences don't want to post them as they know they will get chastised by ignorant a-holes on the forums. It's crazy the number of guys who have contacted me to bitch about Ed after seeing my threads/posts during the past year. Maybe he is a great tuner if he takes his time, shows concern, pays close attention to what's going on and doesn't push it. Maybe if he concentrated on what is going on while tuning instead of trying to line up his next paying customer he would be good. I have no idea, but I didn't see it. In hindsight I should have had this local shop do everything from day one. They say things happen for a reason and I believe it. I also believe in Karma which certainly has taken its toll on more than a few "haters". Trust me on this one!
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    CJCTSV is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by CADZLA RETURNS View Post
    ----------

    [/COLOR]



    21 posts? Too funny!! Ed? Friend of Ed's? Ed's daughter? LOL. Trust me plenty of people believe me. I have been contacted by 5 guys already from this site that are/considering/on the fence about working with Ed. I tell them my story, offer to send them emails, screen shots of texts, contact info of several other guys who contacted me and will never work with Ed again, contact info of shop owner, copies of the tunes, etc. Then they make their own decision. They aren't paying attention to douche bags like you because ignorant people such as yourself are a dime a dozen on the forums. You have to jump on the band wagon to feel wanted/needed/tough. Go back and play on another forum where maybe you have 25 posts. Have a good rest of the week!
    You really are a fool. Yes.. low 20's here, hundreds of quality posts on owners where we laughed you off the site, and tens of thousands of quality posts on other ls type websites.

    I don't have a clue about Ed. I just know about you, multiple user names because you get banned or continue to hide your wannabe slanted truth.

    You keep telling everyone about these other people... Not one has ever stepped forward to backup your claims or even support you in ANY way.

    We all wonder why that may be. My personal bet is that 'the 5' are just as magical as your stories here and on owners.

    Thanks for the well wishes... I was driving at Circuit of the Americas today, couldn't have been a better day even if I tried.
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

    Quote Originally Posted by blaine321 View Post

    On a side note: Still think its pretty silly they didn't put forged pistons in the LSA motor... they put them in the cheap Cobra motors since 2003.
    Please explain to me what is cheap about a Cobra motor?
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  6. #21
    blaine321 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

    Quote Originally Posted by Boosted2000si View Post
    Please explain to me what is cheap about a Cobra motor?
    Nothing but the overall price of the Cobras in 2003. Still their are forged pistons in the all the new Boss mustangs as well which runs 41k base price compared to the 70k price on the caddy. Pretty sure every CTS V owner here would pay an extra 1K or so for forged internals. Of course the same concept applies to the Vipers after 1999... they also lost their forged pistons.
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  7. #22
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

    This is a shame.

    If tuners turned away all the customers they figured were going to be internet know-it-alls a week after they paid for the tune, they'd all be out of business. I don't envy these guys at all.

    If you choose to pay a pro to do something you can't do, and you don't like how it turned out, deal with it or learn how to do it yourself
    Mike Litsch
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

    Ed is one of (if not "The") best LS tuners out there. Sorry man, someone with your history of being banned across multiple boards isn't going to do much to damage a stellar reputation in the community, which is a good thing for Ed.

    Let us know when you get 700whp...
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  10. #25
    Luna. is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

    Quote Originally Posted by CADZLA RETURNS View Post
    It's official - Ed Hutchings damaged my motor. Three cylinders are low in compression and the plugs are seeing oil. This is what happens when an incompetent tuner pushes a stock bottom end LSA with stock head bolts with 23psi, IAT2s at 190+, 12.1 AFR and 19 degrees of timing. live and learn i guess . I was considering going with the GM 376LSX B15 but heard that the forged internals are generic . Also was considering a 408 long block from Texas Speed or a Jess Bubbs 434LSX.
    But decided to have my motor rebuilt with forged internals . I'll have it sleeved as well.
    Cheers!
    Are you the same guy who got banned on the other CTSV forum?

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CADZLA RETURNS View Post
    Ed Hutchings aka Eddie (wants) Money. How about you taking responsibility for compromising my motor due to your negligence??!! Maybe if you would have been the least apologetic and didn't go spewing off to everyone that you were going to sue me for $300 I would have let this go. Maybe if you would have helped replace my head gaskets or possibly reduced your fee due to the damage you caused I would have moved on quietly. But you chose to insult me, blame me for the issues you caused. You even admitted the day after lifting my heads in a text "Yes, 23psi is kinda high. LOL". Yes, you included "LOL". This is really mature. I will be more than happy to post the screenshot on here for all to see. Or it can be seen at cadzla.com. You were well aware of the 23psi, the crazy high IAT2s, yet you continued to do back to back WOTs on the dyno until you pushed the motor so hard anti freeze was pouring out both sides of the motor (on a car that had less than 10k miles). I said we needed to bleed the heat exchanger because it wasn't done well enough after the whipple went back on. You ignored this request, telling me to leave you alone to do your job. I suggested larger upper pulley (after all you stated above that "he brought 3 pulleys with him") for less boost but you said it would be ok. There were a few guys there that saw what you did and said you were negligent. In fact, Frank told you that you're not allowed in his shop ever again after what you did to my car and the Mustang that you tuned (it left with less power than what it came in with). My car sat in my garage since last October. I did not have time to work on it, and it doesn't get driven during the winter months. I had it towed to the local shop two miles down the street. The first thing I asked them to do was a compression test. I wanted it done as I distinctly recall your reaction when you and Pat checked it after you lifted the heads. I saw you look at Pat and shrug your shoulders after you saw results of #8. It was like "oh shit". This has bothered me for the past several months. I knew you were lying to me when you said the compression was ok. I knew something was wrong. Even after I had the new gaskets and ARP studs installed and we dyno the next day, you kept saying "I am afraid, something is wrong. V's with less mods are making more power". So that is basically the last thing you said to me. Curtis was there and I believe Frank was as well and heard you state this. Now you deny damaging my motor??? Sure it's making power now, but it would be making 30-40HP more if three cylinders weren't compromised. There is a very obvious miss (like a misfire) at any cruising speed now, and it will only get worse. I have to have the motor rebuilt. Period. So don't deny what you did. All the guys at the shop saw how you pushed it, saw the results. I will be more than happy go give anyone the name and number of the shop owner, or the other guys that were present. I will also provide the contact information for all the guys who have contacted me since seeing my threads on various forums stating my experience with Ed Hutchings. All of them said that they would never work with Ed again. Some experienced some damage, other had failures (like the guy with the red turbo pickup that Ed tuned while here in Chicago last year. He called me two weeks after Ed tuned his trans and motor to let me know the trans blew up). Other guys simply were not happy with the amount of time Ed spent on their cars for the price he charged or had some minor issues. They used the services of another tuner and their issues were resolved. Bill Hoffman, from Maryland I believe trusted Ed with his brand new ZL1 and the third pass down the track Ed's negligence caused a piston or two to melt.
    Regarding money hungry - I stopped your measly $300 check because your negligence caused damage to my car, costing me money. You did not offer to help pull the heads as you were too busy on your laptop searching for more clients (victims as I refer to them). I reissued a check to Frank as he overcharged me in error for the work that was done. Frank and I are good, always have been. Unlike you I am welcome at his shop any time. LOL. Whipple is a less than stand up company. My whipple failed twice due to poor workmanship or inferior parts. I simply asked Whipple to cover some of my expenses of having to remove the unit twice, ship it, and have it reinstalled twice. They reluctantly reimbursed me for the shipping cost for one of the times. So I didn't screw Whipple out of anything. The They cost me a lot of $ for a POS product that is no longer sold for the V2's as there is a known problem that has yet to be resolved. Everyone that bought a Whipple had problems with them busting. TPIS throttle body wasn't working well so I returned it for a full refund. No secret there. No problems there. Do a search and you'll find a lot of guys having issues with the TPIS. So what else do you have? Now back to you being money hungry. I have a text from you (I can post the screenshot) stating "$10,000 is nothing. I make that a month on Paypal doing tunes". How about the day after you lifted my heads you were screaming at me about paying you the balance of what I owed you "before your car goes back on the dyno". You were a raging psycho and your actions were witness by Curtis, Frank and a couple of the other guys. You were only concerned with $300, not the fact that you caused me extra expense by compromising my motor. You need to get the story straight.
    I could care less about yellow bullet forum. There are a bunch of biased guys on that site that are more concerned with posting or viewing pictures of naked midgets than they are about anything serious that involves auto performance. I didn't expect a warm welcome from the guys as Ed Hutchings has been a member of the site for quite a while. Also there are NO members on there that were present the day Ed lifted the heads. Period. However, I did get the word out and was contacted by several guys regarding more details about my experience with Ed Hutchings. I know for a fact that I saved a few guys from working with Ed and possibly going through the expense and aggravation that I did. I have been contacted by a few more already because of this thread. I told my story and the guys can do what they want. Simple. I did recommend Jeremy Formato of Faster Proms and Mike Frumosso from New Era. To my knowledge both are excellent tuners that haven't blown a motor or trans. I have no reason to lie about my experience. I gain nothing personally. I only hope to warn others and possibly prevent them from going through what I did. I have emails, texts, witnesses, shop owner, guys at the new shop to back up everything I have stated. The competent tuner at the new shop will confirm what he saw on Ed's tunes. There was knock present on the first 3 or 4, then the one the day he lifted the heads, the AFR was too high and other parameters were way off too (something to do with not pulling enough timing at certain temps.) For the guys that worked with Ed and had great results, kudos to you. I am pleased that you had no issues. I am sure that Ed has tuned several cars and had no issues. If not, he wouldn't be in business today. For the guys that don't know Ed, never worked with him, never had him tune your vehicle, you have nothing to add here so please avoid doing so just to be ignorant.
    Eddie disappeared from cadillacowners site once he couldn't take the heat anymore after causing damage to a few members V's (after tuning them during his trip to Chgo). It's simple go look and see the last time he posted.

    PS - And to answer your question. It will never end. I will continue to warn everyone I can about my experience with you. If after telling guys about what I went through and they still want to work with you , then they can roll the dice. At least I'll feel like I did my part. I wish I could have warned Bill Hoffman in time. The guy in Jersey with the Turbo V2 thanked me several time for warning him.
    Jesus...paragraphs are your friend. I'm not even going to read all of this.

    In my mind, your credibility is going right down the drain & fast. He was doing things that you didn't feel comfortable doing, yet let him continue doing it? WTF??

    The thread Ed linked is telling...
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  11. #26
    jzchen is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna. View Post
    Are you the same guy who got banned on the other CTSV forum?

    ----------



    Jesus...paragraphs are your friend. I'm not even going to read all of this.

    In my mind, your credibility is going right down the drain & fast. He was doing things that you didn't feel comfortable doing, yet let him continue doing it? WTF??

    The thread Ed linked is telling...
    When I'm really upset, I mean really, really upset, I'll tend to start writing/typing like this. (I need to reread some more posts here though...)

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by CADZLA RETURNS View Post
    Bringing my career and mother into this? Seriously? Are you taking lessons from your buddy Keith Cring of KDI? You are classless and you are far from professional. Period. You have damaged your own reputation time and time again. You don't really need me to help.
    I am very successful with my career. And I can sleep well at night. If my client has a problem or I make a mistake I am man enough to admit it and make it right. Something you obviously can't do.
    Speaking of "girls" I probably should have pulled one from the street, gave her a laptop and had her tune my car. The end result couldn't have been any worse.
    +1

    Isn't there a rule about this. If you're a professional/representing a company, don't attack a person about their job. I don't like that one bit.... (Sorry, having lots of issues with a solar installer right now, but never did they attack me directly like this...) My wife has a super, higher paying job than I do, and same with my mother over my father.... "even girls do it." Yikes.... (DON'T DAMAGE YOUR CREDIBILITY TALKING LIKE THIS!!!)
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    MIAdragon is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

    Quote Originally Posted by DiabloMike View Post
    This is a shame.

    If tuners turned away all the customers they figured were going to be internet know-it-alls a week after they paid for the tune, they'd all be out of business. I don't envy these guys at all.

    If you choose to pay a pro to do something you can't do, and you don't like how it turned out, deal with it or learn how to do it yourself

    I dont have a dog in this fight but this comment is such ****** and just maybe the reason so many get upset with so called "pros". Do the job you were paid to do, correctly, and the first time. The "holier-than-thou" attitude is laughable.
    RapidRob, RapidRob, cblove and 3 others like this.
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  13. #28
    rayjoedef is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

    Quote Originally Posted by MIAdragon View Post
    I dont have a dog in this fight but this comment is such *******and just maybe the reason so many get upset with so called "pros". Do the job you were paid to do, correctly, and the first time. The "holier-than-thou" attitude is laughable.
    Totally agree...complete ******statement by DiabloMike as if the tuners are doing the owners a favor by taking on the work. If you claim to have the experience to complete the mod, then complete the mod. If you take on a job you can't handle or make a mistake, take responsibility. If not, nothing a good attorney or a hammer to the brain-stem won't correct. A certain tuner took on my mod and was obviously over his head. He did, however, take responsibility and reimbursed for the repair....
    2013CTSV and 2013CTSV like this.
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  14. #29
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    Re: New Motor Time - Thanks to Ed Hutchings

    Quote Originally Posted by MIAdragon View Post
    I dont have a dog in this fight but this comment is such *******and just maybe the reason so many get upset with so called "pros". Do the job you were paid to do, correctly, and the first time. The "holier-than-thou" attitude is laughable.
    Sounds like ******Diablosport to me!
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    translux is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Chuck sorry for your troubles-it's sucks when things don't work out.
    I do think your anger/energy is misplaced with blaming Ed.

    I have nothing but great things to say about his work, follow up etc.
    My car drives like stock until you go into boost then all hell breaks loose in a nice linear and controllable fashion.
    Keep in mind that this is with a highly modded car making greater than 700 whp.
    He also diagnosed and resolved issues that had nothing to do with tuning and clearly weren't his responsibility.

    If anyone is looking for someone to tune I would highly recommend Ed Hutchins with zero reservations.
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