Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?
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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; I am just about ready to pull the trigger on my engine build to get @700 wheel HP. I was ...
  1. #1
    Moparman4444 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    I am just about ready to pull the trigger on my engine build to get @700 wheel HP. I was always under the impression that the installation of a cam will either increase idle or cause a lumpy idle depending on how the cam is setup, the timing, programing etc.

    The last thing I want is a lumpy idle or a higher idle that causes the trans to ingage early at a stop sign for a daily driver.

    But recently I heard that it is possible to add a cam along with transmission torque converter tweeking, where the engine would pick up @250prm but the stall converter could be reprogrammed to increase the stall resulting in no appreciable diferance in daily driving.

    Assuming I go with they typical upgrades like pulleys, HX, injectors, headers and heads, is this a cam install a viable option?

    I wil probably have the work done by Wait4me because there is nobody to do the work in Milwaukee, but didn't want to bug them untill I am ready.

    Any thoughts

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  3. #2
    wait4me's Avatar
    wait4me is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    I am booked for over 1.5 months right now as it sits at 1 cam swap "some heads also" a day and 1-2 dyno tunes on the Vs with and small mod jobs like 2.55 pulley sways ect.. , So if you are in a hurry, it is probably better to get it done somewhere else. I only have Ben and myself working here. We have been slammed for the past 6 months..
    Currently there are over 31 people waiting in line for work.. I can only go so fast. One major build a day sometimes 2. That don't count the large full engine builds or twin turbo jobs that take 2-3 days that need to be done while the others are being done simultaneously ...


    As for your question on Cam.

    1. A cam wont "raise" your idle. A tuner would do that manually via tuning to help with cam chop.
    2. A zr1 cam will NOT get you to 700RWHP. Well not unless you use a twin turbo kit..
    3. A zr1 cam will still idle smooth at stock idle rpm of the V.
    4. It is possible to add a Massive cam and still use the stock V torque converter. Massive meaning 700 lift and 240s durations....
    5. The larger the duration and lobe separation will all change the sound of idle and the choppiness.
    6. The more hp you need, the more of a larger cam and boost you need. Which is going to effect drivability.
    7. 700 is a lot of hp for a normal daily driver. I tell and suggest most people that come here, to keep it near 600RWHP, then add a 100shot of nitrous to go farther, it eliminates a lot of hassle, it will drive closer to stock, and will have massive power only when you want it. Also it gets rid of fueling issues you will have via pumps, and injector things, as nitrous can be on its own system to get you past the hp you want.

  4. #3
    Moparman4444 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    Jesse

    If your so busy then stop responding to all these threads. LOL. Seriously, Im glad you are busy it reflects demand for your skills.

    Thanks for the reply. You mentioned a turbo kit. Three questions:
    1. Does that kit have less torque out of the hole than the supercharger, ie hows it s street drivability?
    2. What is the antisipated cost installed?
    3. Could I get 700hp w/o heads and a cam swap on pump gas, assuming I add an intercooler and meth injection?
    3.

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    wait4me is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    The turbo kit if your car is not lowered has very good clearance. It drives nicer than stock in my opinion. The power is near instant and you are smiling ear to ear every time you get on it..
    Cost of kit though is pretty high due to the parts In it. The turbos just in parts for the kit cost me over 17k so it is a bit more than that for all the extra stuff, but still WAY under the cost of the other solutions out there...

    When you use the turbo setup, you are going to make more rwhp to the wheels because you don't have to eat horsepower to turn a blower.
    700whp is pretty easy to hit.

    I have done a few that use the stock supercharger assembly on the top, even using pulleys, but I take out the rotor pack and just leave it all looking stock. But each person has their own preference.

    There are a lot of pre requisites though when going that route.

    ----------

    I respond to a lot of threads because, last year, the main valid complaint people had was sometimes I was hard to get a hold of.. So, as of that moment last year, I have put the internet and phones first in line, then building and in person work second.. It used to be the other way around but that wasn't good enough for everyone....

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    Moparman4444 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    Jesse

    I never thought about the turbo route before your comments but im now intreged. I have had several turbo cars and always found them to be full of grins and giggles. Power is avaliable by just turning up the boost.

    I am confused how a turbo kit could cost over $17,000 though. A pair of Garrett 35 series ball bearing turbos should run around $2500. Add to that an intercooler, piping, flanges for the connection, wastegates, oil return pump, blow off valve and you should be under $2000 in additional parts. How do you get up to $17,000 unless you are talking a forged block as well.

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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by wait4me View Post

    [/COLOR]I respond to a lot of threads because, last year, the main valid complaint people had was sometimes I was hard to get a hold of.. So, as of that moment last year, I have put the internet and phones first in line, then building and in person work second.. It used to be the other way around but that wasn't good enough for everyone....
    Its your presence is noticeably improved. Somehow you find time to respond, that is impressive

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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    Isn't there a place by Chicago that does work on these cars also?I love my W4ME tuner, so I can swap back to swap.

  9. #8
    V locity's Avatar
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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    Here's the sound of a larger cam (Gt9) through a 100% stock exhaust @ about 600 rpm idle.

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    Moparman4444 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    V locity

    That idle isn't too bad. I would have expected much more rumble. That are the specs on the Gt9 cam and where did you get it from?

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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    Here you go...


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    Da V-Man is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    Or, if you can't read the numbers on that pic either, go here:

    http://www.lingenfelter.com/sites/li...ion%20v1.0.pdf

  13. #12
    Moparman4444 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    V locity

    Thank you for the info. I can't believe that is a 629 degree lift cam. How did you get it to idle that smooth at 600 rpm? Im assuming the engine was wormed up when shown.

  14. #13
    Da V-Man is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    Quote Originally Posted by Moparman4444 View Post
    I can't believe that is a 629 degree lift cam. How did you get it to idle that smooth at 600 rpm?
    Valve lift has no effect on a cam's idle quality. Overlap is the primary contributor to lopey idles. The GT9 cam has 39º of seat-to-seat overlap, the same as the factory LSA cam. But the GT9 has faster ramp profiles, which will have the valves off their seats a little farther than the LSA cam during the overlap period. This will allow a bit more exhaust gas into the intake stream, which dilutes the intake charge and affects the idle quality. So the GT9 cam will have just a slightly rougher idle than the LSA cam. But a good tuner can smooth out most of the difference, allowing the GT9 to sound bone stock.

  15. #14
    V locity's Avatar
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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    Well, in reference to the idle quality, it is rougher than the LSA but not by much.

    It's always been my understanding that the more positive overlap @ 50 lift, the more "loppy" the sound @ idle. Since the GT9 has a (-11) @ 50 lift, it has a tame idle (as it compares to other larger lift/duration cams). It is also weighted to the exhaust profile (higher lift & duration than the intake side) for better excavation of spent gasses on a supercharged setup.

    I will tell you that the point Da V made about the amplitude of the lift ramp being steeper does cause valve noise. It kinda sounds like a forged motor or even a sowing machine, LOL...

  16. #15
    Moparman4444 is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Will a cam shaft from a ZR1 increase idle in a LSA motor?

    noisey cam? Thats not good

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