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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Low 80s ---------- You can do the math to get Real injector duty cycle. Maybe the software they are using ...
  1. #31
    wait4me's Avatar
    wait4me is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Low 80s

    ----------

    You can do the math to get Real injector duty cycle. Maybe the software they are using is reporting it incorrectly.

  2. #32
    topend22 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?


  3. #33
    kwilson is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Thread jack....Jessie what are the torque specs on the strut tower brace on a 2013?

    On a side note.....I am kinda in the middle. I installed the LPE 650 kit with ported TB and Blower snout, plugs, wires, SW headers into SW exhaust, D3 CAI and tune. The car put down 607 RWHP and 597 ft.lbs torque on a dyno com.

    Anyway, we installed the Bosch 028015187 56 lbs injector or whatever it is and my tuner stated that my duty cycle was above 95% and that I may want to look at a larger injectors. Me being me and not wanting to risk anything I went and bought ID850's and am now around 65% duty cycle. Did I have to have ID850s...no. Do I feel good about it....yes. He had nothing in the injector sale and wanted me to buy fast 85. Plenty of room for growth!!!!

    I found the best tuner (IMHO) around me...one that I felt comfortable with and went with it. If I were to take my car to another tuner they would do it differently then he did and different from anyone else.

    If I were by Jessie that's where it would have went or perhaps out in CA to D3...hell I even thought about going to Hennessy down in TX but damn I'd have 100k in this thing had I gone that route

    My point being everyone tunes differently!!!

    Torque specs on strut tower anyone???

  4. #34
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stillborn View Post
    stop back peddling. you go run some poor fools afr at 11.9/12.3 (depending on weather and a possible bad batch of gas) and hope they dont fry a ringland. my a/f is set at 11.4 at the time of tune, once winter came it went up to 11.8.(and an additional lb of boost) that is enough reason to go with larger injectors if i had more mods. I'll trust what guys (like g-force) are doing instead of a guy who just wants to be right all the time. you drew first blood, not me.

    mike maz has headers and a smaller pulley.(2.3) he will need injectors. mark my words.
    Stillborn, I "marked your words" and you were correct. I'm am sorry if I doubted you. I DO NEED INJECTORS. My car ran out of injector at 565 on the DYNO. 85 pounders are being next day shipped to my tuner. He could not finish the tune. I'm a big enough man to own up when I'm wrong and I was wrong. Look like car will make 580 to 590 when he can finish the tune with injectors Friday.
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  5. #35
    kwilson is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike_maz
    Stillborn, I "marked your words" and you were correct. I'm am sorry if I doubted you. I DO NEED INJECTORS. My car ran out of injector at 565 on the DYNO. 85 pounders are being next day shipped to my tuner. He could not finish the tune. I'm a big enough man to own up when I'm wrong and I was wrong. Look like car will make 580 to 590 when he can finish the tune with injectors Friday.
    580 to 590 are some sweet numbers.....congratulations on your build!!!!

  6. #36
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Have your tuner email me, and I can give him the instructions on how to add more pressure to your tune. It isn't hard...

  7. #37
    c55asleep is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Quote Originally Posted by wait4me View Post
    Have your tuner email me, and I can give him the instructions on how to add more pressure to your tune. It isn't hard...
    Jesse, just a question. You can add more pressure via voltage if I understand correctly but wouldn't the
    Flow become an issue and the reason why going to bigger injectors.

  8. #38
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    When you up fuel pressure via voltage and or PWM, the flow capability "which is HP limit" of the injectors are increased.


    The fuel pump Volume "the amount of fuel it can possibly flow" is not a problem at this horsepower level either, and changing injectors does not effect this limit either.


    The Fuel pump driver can also learn and does learn.

    It has a duty cycle and a "TRIM LEARN" system just like the fuel system on our cars have.

    So, when tuning, it is a must to log this information. Which most people do not do.


    An example of what happens, and why tuning changes sometimes for customers that are tuned at shops.

    Say the tuner has the car on the dyno, and does a change to something fuel related or adds a part that adds horsepower.

    The cars Fuel pump driver had previously stored a value in its trim settings that at full throttle, it needed 72% duty cycle on the pumps to maintain 65psi that was requested during the whole run from 2000-6000rpm. As the car had been driven, it has learned that it needs to do that to maintain that pressure as commanded vs actual.

    So, fast forward to you adding hard parts, which lets just say 80rwhp.

    Well now, the fuel volume needed to maintain the 65 psi has changed drastically, so the fpdm has to relearn what it needs to do via pwm to achieve a steady fuel flow at that psi for the new mods.

    What most people will do though, is they will tune the file based on what they see before the trims have been reset or relearn. "You can do this with a tech 2"

    So for example, customers car did a pull, it was 11.1 air fuel, the fuel pressure commanded was 65, actual was 57. Duty cycle on the fuel pump driver was about 75% because it didn't still yet register that it needed to change the trim values. So you get done tuning, you had the fuel set at 11.4 air fuel. Well now, you let the car out of the shop and customer drives home. As the customer continues to drive, the fuel pump driver module is still learning and has now moved the trims to make it close to actual commanded again. Which in this case was 65. So, now real duty cycle of the pump is 88% to achieve that pressure. However now the customer car is richer than it was when it left, "or leaner depending on what way the trims went" after it has learnt what it needed to do to be back to commanded vs actual.

    The same system is in your transmission, also in your engine for fuel trims, It is just a learning thing that makes things closer to actual values that are being commanded.

    ----------

    So, I guess it is going to rest at this.

    Tuner error is the cause for not being able to supply enough fuel..

    Some tuners can make stock injectors work just fine for 600 and less hp.
    Some cant. I can live with that...

  9. #39
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    it's nice to watch mickey mouse squirm with his other worldly mindset. in reality you can NOT make smaller injectors flow more fuel no matter how much pressure you add. what a bozo. if that was the case they would make universal injectors adjusted with line pressure. but they dont, they come in flow sized increments. mickey mouse eat crow you "know-it all" cliff clavin.

    i just went back to pg1 and how glorious it feels to be right. this thread should should have a trophy next to it instead of stars. lmao.

    mike glad to see you are making good power, no need to feel any which way about this thread as you were in the learning curve,...
    mickey mouse should have know better but his ego runs his mouth. ego is the cock blocker of all wisdom.

  10. #40
    Hocky is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stillborn View Post
    it's nice to watch mickey mouse squirm with his other worldly mindset. in reality you can NOT make smaller injectors flow more fuel no matter how much pressure you add.
    uh... injector flow rate is 100% dependent on the pressure behind them.

  11. #41
    topend22 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Bought 85 pounders
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  12. #42
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hocky View Post
    uh... injector flow rate is 100% dependent on the pressure behind them.
    .

    the restriction is the injectors themselves, not the pressure in the line. hence the 90+% rule.
    once you hit the margin of safety you will need to increase injector size. end of story.
    why ask more from the fuel system (stress the pumps) when it will all work synergistically with larger injectors?

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_maz View Post
    Bought 85 pounders
    did you get the ID850'S? ( Injector Dynamics )

    ----------

  13. #43
    topend22 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    No, I went with Bosh or Siemens I think. I left it up to my tuner on what ones he like to use. Not really sure exactly. He is a vet respectable LS tuner in Michigan. His name is Dr. Phil

  14. #44
    kwilson is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stillborn
    .




    did you get the ID850'S? ( Injector Dynamics )

    ----------
    Hard to beat the data that comes with the ID's
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  15. #45
    ExpatMedic is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Wait4Me is correct regarding this topic.

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