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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by Stillborn i dont have headers, just a 2.5 and cai. i listed hp as all manufactures do. ...
  1. #16
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stillborn View Post
    i dont have headers, just a 2.5 and cai. i listed hp as all manufactures do. do your own math to determine rwhp/tq. i never said the 52lb injectors werent on both cars. all i said was good luck with your tune. and your smart ass know it all replies are why you will never get my business you knuckle dragging hillbilly.
    You are being silly.

    Read your posts, the first one in post 3 said that the stock injectors where not going to work. Yet, as I posted, the same ones are used in the ZR1 making that same horsepower...

    Secondly, you said I was "blowing smoke" which again a quick call to your local dealer will prove that I was correct.

    Third, When I said "that is no where near accurate" I was saying that the limit for the stock injectors has been PROVEN to be way over 550 and still supply fuel and be controllable, well within range of control. 600hp is the limit for safety on them.

    Injector duty cycle will change depending on what the actual fuel ratio is as well, a car that someone tunes to be 11.7 air fuel "which is still safe" will have a lower duty cycle that being tuned to 10.8.. So, if the fuel is in the right spot, and you have the fuel pressure correct and stabilized, then you are good.

    Not all tuners mess with the right stuff to allow for more fuel pressure and voltages..

    So, Instead of being a negative person, and making yourself look childish, lets just all be adults and be more accurate with your information...

    ----------

    One more thing to add, if you re read my last post, I said this "According to his mod list in the header, he has a 2.55 pulley, "

    It said you had a 2.55 pulley. I did not say you had headers.

  2. #17
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    stop back peddling. you go run some poor fools afr at 11.9/12.3 (depending on weather and a possible bad batch of gas) and hope they dont fry a ringland. my a/f is set at 11.4 at the time of tune, once winter came it went up to 11.8.(and an additional lb of boost) that is enough reason to go with larger injectors if i had more mods. I'll trust what guys (like g-force) are doing instead of a guy who just wants to be right all the time. you drew first blood, not me.

    mike maz has headers and a smaller pulley.(2.3) he will need injectors. mark my words.

  3. #18
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Quote Originally Posted by Stillborn View Post
    stop back peddling. you go run some poor fools afr at 11.9/12.3 (depending on weather) and hope they dont fry a ringland. my a/f is set at 11.4 at the time of tune, once winter came it went up to 11.8. that is enough reason to go with larger injectors if i had more mods. I'll trust what guys (like g-force) are doing instead of a guy who just wants to be right all the time. you drew first blood, not me.

    mike maz has headers and a smaller pulley.(2.3) he will need injectors. mark my words.
    Again, you are adding more words that im not saying. Where in the posts have I put or even said those air fuel ratios. 11.9 is not going to kill a supercharged engine sorry to say, even though I never said that value..
    The reason why YOURS might have went to a different air fuel ratio was from a setting in the tune based on iat or on coolant temp. Sounds like YOUR tuner just didn't compensate for that.

    How many cars have you built? How many cars have you tuned?

  4. #19
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    this is my 28th car... 2/3rd of which were modified. this isn't my first rodeo. i said all i have to say on this as i dont have a dog in the fight. mike maz i hope you are happy with the tune and your new mods. you'll be very happy when it's all squared away. keep us posted on what's what.

  5. #20
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    I read farther into your last post, and it isn't the fuel injector size that is manipulating your actual air fuel ratio sorry to say from summer to winter....

    ----------

    Also one more thing. Your saying about me back peddling, how the heck is that if i'm telling others to go somewhere local. LOL Not sure what your problem is. All I was doing here is posting FACTUAL data. Not hearsay and you get all pissed about it..

  6. #21
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Quote Originally Posted by wait4me View Post
    I read farther into your last post, and it isn't the fuel injector size that is manipulating your actual air fuel ratio sorry to say from summer to winter....
    you're exactly right, but as i stated if he's maxed out at 95% at 11.7ish and gets a bad batch of fuel and denser air from colder temps,...i think you know whats going to possibly happen. i would never be happy with any afr that high on a daily driver. 11.2-11.4 is as high as I'd personally take it. if you want an additional track tune per sct and adding torco blend then thats another ballgame. but for a set dd tune, 11.7 or above is just plain dumb. we aren't even talking timing here either, but again 17* is max for a dd in my book. you can do what you want. I'll keep my investment safe.

    bottom line, why make excuses for afr and injector size safety, if you cant safely reach a target afr via stock injectors than it's time to get larger injectors.
    end of story.

    so the story goes, can you? i guess you can. would i? absolutly not.

  7. #22
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    You also haven't answered the question clearly. How many 2009 up cts v have you PHYSICALLY MODIFIED with your own hands with parts, and in the second answer, How many CTSV HAVE YOU PERSONALLY TUNED.

    From your answers in the previous responses, you don't have a real clue about anything of it and are just making stuff up.. The forums are supposed to be for people to have exact real answers. With not some made up he said she said stuff..

    Sorry if you get mad about being wrong on it. But that is the way it is..

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Stillborn View Post
    you're exactly right, but as i stated if he's maxed out at 95% at 11.7ish and gets a bad batch of fuel and denser air from colder temps,...i think you know whats going to possibly happen. i would never be happy with any afr that high on a daily driver. 11.2-11.4 is as high as I'd personally take it. if you want an additional track tune per sct and adding torco blend then thats another ballgame. but for a set dd tune, 11.7 or above is just plain dumb. we aren't even talking timing here either, but again 17* is max for a dd in my book. you can do what you want. I'll keep my investment safe.

    You are ignoring the fact that the cts v has a fuel pump control module with pwm fuel pumps, that can adjust fuel pressure.

    As long as the fuel pressure is higher and can maintain the desired fuel pressure, then the fuel injectors are good. The problem I see is, that the fuel pressure cant keep up with the demand as it approaches the 600rwhp mark, so all you have to do is add a higher desired fuel pressure, in this case 72psi up from the 60-65 and then modify the applied voltage up from the 12 stock to 16-18 at wot.. It is that simple.

    At that point, your injector is physically a larger lb per hour.

    Just like in the zr1.. Same injector, and can go much larger than what you are saying..

    GM wouldn't use it in the car if it couldn't handle the horsepower the stock engine is producing. A stock zr1 on my dyno here which is a mustang 250hd with eddycurrent makes 560-580 BONE stock without a pulley change, It does just fine after putting on the smaller pulley and tune which brings it up past 600, however, it has an advantage of 85psi at wot..

  8. #23
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    ask g-force if the would run those figures. you make it much more involved than it is. if the injectors are over 95% at over 11.4 afr, you need larger injectors. period. your right, im wrong. happy? next.

  9. #24
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Stillborn, I hate to say this but you really should not be putting words in Gforce Mouth. How do you know what he would say? If my tuner says I will need injectors based on the numbers he sees, i will by all means add injectors to the list. There are 3 local tuners here in Michigan, 1 being Livernois Motorsports. Very big company. All three tuning shops told me I should not need injectors, as well as Jessie, who I never met personally but has never steered my wrong and seems like a great guy. I have also been told by several others that my injectors, the same as the ZR1 can be adjusted to be safe with my mods. on another note, I have also seen some tuners that have said. "You Must have bigger injectors" my personal feeling it they dont have the experience and dont know how to set up the current injectors so they just have the customer buy larger ones because thier lack of knowledge. Anyways, I just though I would drop in and mention that it is not cool to put words into another vendors mouth. (G-Force). As far as HP numbers, I have not seen anyone on any forum list thier Engine HP numbers. Thats what confussed me. All I ever see on the forums and I belong to several is the actual measured HP numbers from a dyno, not a mathmatical number that people have to trig out just to see what you real HP numbers are. one last thing, My tuner has 25 years experience tuning cars and if Jessie was closer to me, he would be my number 1 choice. I dont think you can deny his expertise. Last point I want to make, we are all adults here, it would be nice if you can keep the name calling to yourself, there is no reason for that, Jessie nor myself called you any names, he simply stated facts based on his experience with tuning probably over 1000 CTS V's. if not more. Just talk to what YOU know from experience, not what you think "GForce" may or may not say. No hard feelings man, just chill out.

  10. #25
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    ZR1's have been pushed over 700 rwhp on stock injectors and fuel pumps...... just saying....
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  11. #26
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_maz View Post
    Stillborn, I hate to say this but you really should not be putting words in Gforce Mouth. How do you know what he would say? If my tuner says I will need injectors based on the numbers he sees, i will by all means add injectors to the list. There are 3 local tuners here in Michigan, 1 being Livernois Motorsports. Very big company. All three tuning shops told me I should not need injectors, as well as Jessie, who I never met personally but has never steered my wrong and seems like a great guy. I have also been told by several others that my injectors, the same as the ZR1 can be adjusted to be safe with my mods. on another note, I have also seen some tuners that have said. "You Must have bigger injectors" my personal feeling it they dont have the experience and dont know how to set up the current injectors so they just have the customer buy larger ones because thier lack of knowledge. Anyways, I just though I would drop in and mention that it is not cool to put words into another vendors mouth. (G-Force). As far as HP numbers, I have not seen anyone on any forum list thier Engine HP numbers. Thats what confussed me. All I ever see on the forums and I belong to several is the actual measured HP numbers from a dyno, not a mathmatical number that people have to trig out just to see what you real HP numbers are. one last thing, My tuner has 25 years experience tuning cars and if Jessie was closer to me, he would be my number 1 choice. I dont think you can deny his expertise. Last point I want to make, we are all adults here, it would be nice if you can keep the name calling to yourself, there is no reason for that, Jessie nor myself called you any names, he simply stated facts based on his experience with tuning probably over 1000 CTS V's. if not more. Just talk to what YOU know from experience, not what you think "GForce" may or may not say. No hard feelings man, just chill out.

    go to the "other forum" (see tee s vee owners) and you'll find out from the horses mouth (g-force). just search "injector size" threads. i hope we're done here.



    "Added a 2.50" Metco Upper Pulley to the headers/CAI combo. The injectors maxed out at 125% DC on the first run at 537 rwhp (DynoJet). The car had another 20 rwhp in it easily. Tuner had to back it off a little bit so the car can remain drivable until I get ID850's. More videos to come when that happens! Tuned by RPM Motorsports in Garner, NC.

    Car has Stainless Works Headers w/Cat-less down pipe, SW X-Pipe, Stock Axle Back exhaust, New Era Performance CAI, Metco 2.50" Upper Pulley, LPE Solid Isolator, Metco 100mm Idler Pulley, 160 T-Stat"


    make sure you come tell me how your stock injectors do on monday mike maz. hope you got the added 800+ for those bad boys. lol

    ----------

    you will need new injectors, Ya JACKA**! LOL


  12. #27
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    I'm running headers, a 10% overdrive harmonic balancer pulley and a CAI and am on stock injectors. 3 years with no issues...
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  13. #28
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Talk to my tuner today. He said do NOT buy injectors. He said it the worst thing you can do is buy injectors when you don't need them. He said many variables can be modified first before you go out and buy injectors. So again, I will wait till Monday and if I need injectors I will have them shipped next day air. No problem.

  14. #29
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Well. Sorry to say but I have seen a few tunes made by rpm because the people are having shut down issues and transmissions errors, and the tunes have not been modified to allow for more fuel pressure. So theproblem as I stated, it is a tune error if they can't make it work. Simple as that.

    ----------

    He is changing some tables in that fuel segment, but they are for the wrong thing that isn't even being used, so it makes no change to the calibration,

    ----------

    Lol. 33 shops so far can make them work since 2008 so far and more counting as I'm going thru posts... 4 can't... Hmmm

  15. #30
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    Re: Anyone with similar mods? trying to get a HP range where I should be?

    Man this really has me thinking. I have been scared into injectors on my LPE 630 kit as so many ppl said I would be in the "danger zone" on a cool day or may be close even on the dyno. LPE says I could be close but still be in spot that is not above 90%. This thread has taught me alot on how the fuel system works on the V. So Jessie what is the average stage one car automatic say 540 RWHP at on stock injector? 85% with tune for fuel pressure changed?

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