Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation
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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; ...
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    Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    RX CTSV Oil separating crankcase
    evacuation system




    The CTSV from the factory has a very ineffective PCV/Crankcase evacuation setup that not only allows oil ingestion into the intake air charge, it also mixes the “clean” and “dirty” sides of a PCV system allowing harmful combustion byproducts to condense and settle into the crankcase oil shortening engine life over time.

    When installing the RX oil separating crankcase evacuation system, think of “flow”. The vapors flow from the engine crankcase being drawn out the rear of the drivers side valve cover, through the oil separating catchcan, and then only the combustion byproducts are drawn into the intake air charge to be burned in the combustion process and further in the catalytic converters.

    We start by mounting the can by the lowest slot and highest threaded hole so it will clear the hood w/out issue:


    Please note, the center fitting is the inlet that the gasses enter from the fitting on the rear of the drivers side valve cover. The outer flow controlling check valve connects to the intake vacuum source which is sourced from a “T” (provided) that installs inline between the blower inlet and the brake booster:
    Then the provided line is run behind the blower and connects to the outer valve on the catchcan.



    You will then move to the OEM line that connects the passenger side valve cover front nipple, and “t”s to the intake air bridge/tube, and the rear of the drivers side valve cover. This is held to each barb with a plastic spring loaded tab that you simply slide over and the line lifts clear.

    Remove this line completely and cap both the passenger valve cover nipple and the air bridge/tube nipple:




    You will then attache the provided hose from the rear of the drivers side valve cover to the center (inlet) of the can running the hose along the other one behind the super charger.






    After this the last step is to replace the OEM oil fill cap with the RX flow controlling check valved breather kit so you have a controlled amount of filtered fresh air entering the passenger side valve cover, traveling past the rocker arms & valve train, down the push rod valley, through the entire center of the crankcase flushing the damaging combustion byproducts (blow-by) out and up the drivers side push rod valley, past the rocker arms, and out the rear of the drivers side valve cover giving a complete cross-flow evacuation of the damaging compounds.





    Note!!!! The CTSV MUST use the RX flow controlling check valved breather kit to complete this system for optimum function. This breather (unlike all the open uncontrolled breathers) only allows in the proper amount of fresh air that the ECM can adapt for and the one way check valve prevents fumes from escaping into your engine compartment and the atmosphere.



    DSteck understands this and the tuning issues from the oil ingestion and the detonation resulting from it.

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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    On your kit, you need to include a second tank, and lines.

    The main oil coming in from the supercharger area isnt from the stuff you show in the pictures.

    The main oil you see in the supercharger is from the pvc port and inlet that is on the valley cover top front on the left by the intake runner, and into the supercharger snout assembly on the left bottom via a flexible tube that is about 3 inches long.

    Not from the cross over tubes going into the elbow. We all can see this by pulling off our intake tubes and looking in them. There is very very little if not any oil in the tube. Yet the supercharger will have standing oil in it.

    ----------

    The correct flow path for the pvc on our cars is different.

    The Main flow is from the intake Tube itself sucks in fresh filtered air into the valve cover tubes , then to both upper sides of the valve covers, pulled air down into the crank case, and then thru the oil seperator inside the valley cover, and then it is pulled thru the supercharger snout to be evacuated into the engine itself..

    You can see this as it is the only place that has vac on the system. It pulls everything thru at that point and is why the valve cover tubes had vac on them when the system is all plugged in and working.

    When the vehicle is floored, and the engine starts to produce blowby, At that point, the entire system looses its vac pull and just allows air to flow anywhere it wants.

    I can draw a diagram of the full setup for you.

    Technically to be a better layout using one container, just use the upper valley cover port, and the snout port. And no vent. As the Vent we had now is filtered from the engine filter. Another benefit is we wont have to worry about a brake failure if the T ever cracks/breaks by getting your vac source from that point.

    Email me pricing also if you could.

    ----------

    Also PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE dont take my posts as bad or mean. I AM NOT MEANING IT IN THAT WAY AT ALL.

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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    You are correct....(see pic below) the difference is we eliminate the connector and do not use the valley cover as the fixed orfice is to restrictive for these boosted motors so we cap both it and the vacuum nipple but you have an good point on not "t"ing into the booster line. You could easily use the OEM vac port instead. Excellent contribution.....you understand this!!

    So few do understand the systems.





    System is $139 plus $39 for the flow controlling checkvalved breather kit and $15 S&H in the US.

    ----------

    Also wanted to add you can run a second can on the clean-side to trap and keep part the OEM clean line intact, but I prefer the flow through the breather provides.

    You have some dang good knowledge, lets talk further on other issues!

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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    How can I order one? I just put a KDI HX on and I don't want to gum it up

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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    PayPal: RXProducts@aol.com

    Make sure to specify the make/model/year/motor/mods/and polished or matte black.


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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    Money sent!

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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    I ended up using a catch can located exactly where Jesse described, I drain about 1/4 cup every 10 days or so.

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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    Yes, if the OEM system is left as is that will be the best location, but as the valley cover vent is a fixed orfice it is to restrictive to allow a real good evac rate while under boost and that is where the system gets mixed when the crankcase pressure overwhelms the ability for the valley covers flow so by changing it to draw from the drivers side rear valve cover you end up with no excess pressure issues. He is absolutely correct if just tapping into the system as is.

    To test the can your using for effectiveness add a clear glass inline fuel filter between the can and the vacuum port on the passenger side of the SC inlet snout and you will see if the can design traps all the oil or still allows a good amount through.

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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    Here is a picture of the valves on one w/16k miles and no catchcan:


    To order, call direct: 941-721-1826

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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    Here is an example of the results any can test and see:

    3 months, thousands of miles, totally independent:

    [I]I’ve had a UPR catch can on my 5.0 since last summer. It catches a lot, especially in the cold months. But I’ll get right to my test. I added an RX can inline after my UPR can to see if the UPR was missing anything. And if it was allowing some to pass through, was it enough for the RX to catch anything? I don’t drive a lot of miles regularly since my F150 is not a daily driver, so my results will take some time. This thread is to document how I set it up and what I catch over time.
    I installed the RX can just as the directions explained, but I routed the hoses differently. I left my UPR can right where it’s been for months, but rerouted one hose. I left the hose from the passenger side of the engine to the inlet of the UPR can. Then a new hose from UPR can outlet, routed to the inlet of the RX can. The RX outlet hose goes back to the engine. The PCV exhaust now flows from the engine, through the UPR, then through the RX, and finally back up to the engine intake.
    Before installing everything for the test, I cleaned the UPR can thoroughly. The bottom of the can (inside) was covered with a thin layer of stiff sludge that I could only clean out using gas. I’m glad that was caught, along with the ounces of oil, water, etc, over the months I’ve been emptying it. But I was surprised at the outlet hose from the UPR can. It was wet with oil. Obviously some was getting through the can and back to my intake. I’ve never let the can get close to half full before emptying it. Nearly every time I’ve emptied it, there was 1/4“ or less in the bottom. I’m noting this in case someone thinks I left the UPR get overfilled and it flowed through. Nevertheless, I started this test after cleaning everything for a fresh start.
    I plan to leave this setup on for a thousand miles or so, and report my findings from each can.
    1st picture: UPR*can as it was originally installed.
    2nd:*CleanUPR can.
    3rd: RX can installed. The hose in the top center of the can is the inlet. The outlet hose on the right has a check valve.
    4th:*Engine outlet to UPR inlet on left of can. UPR outlet on right side of can routed around (smaller hose) to the RX inlet. You can also see the other smaller hose coming back up from the RX can and ending at the intake on the engine.



    Report 2:



    I thought I'd add a post to keep this thread alive since it is taking me awhile to get enough miles on the truck for valid results. Now that spring weather is finally arriving, I haven't been putting as many miles on it since I'm busy. But I have around 600 miles on the test set up so far. I emptied the cans recently and recorded the volumes to date. I'd like to wait until I get to 1000 miles before posting the results from the test, but I'll give some preliminary feedback.

    - Emptying process -*
    First the UPR. I'm used to emptying the UPR can regularly, so it's not a big deal to unscrew, guide the can out from between the hoses, pour it out, guide it back in between the hoses, get it lined up carefully (so I don't cross thread the soft aluminum) and screw it back up snug. All that takes less than a few minutes so it's rather easy.
    Now the RX can. Raise the hood, hold an empty water bottle under the drain tube, open the valve, close the valve, close the hood. I kid you not, it takes no more time than it took to read those steps. I knew it would be easy to empty, but it is ridiculously easy.

    _ The weather so far -*
    During the first week of the test we had winter weather, with some snow. Since then we have had mild weather. Temperatures are in the 50's and 60's most days.

    - What they caught so far -
    I won't share the amounts yet, but I'll give some info. The UPR can has caught a 'mostly oil with a bit of water' mixture so far. The RX can (in line after the UPR) has had just the opposite. It's collected mostly water or fuel, with some oil mixed in.
    I emptied the UPR first, and I would estimate it has collected the normal amount compared to what it usually does I empty it. I was pleased that my set up with 2 cans didn't seem to change the normal flow and collection I was used to seeing with just the UPR can. When I was about the turn the valve to empty the RX, I paused to a few seconds wondering if anything would come out. After all it was a new can that would need to get some oil/water coated on the inside before there would be enough to drip to the bottom (The UPR can had been in use for many months and although I cleaned the can I did not rinse off the filter material). Plus I wondered if the valve of the RX can protruded up into the can, and if it required some liquid to collect before there was enough to spill over that valve nipple and exit the can. Then I opened the valve and I had to smile when I had some liquid drain out. I thought all along that if it caught more than 10% of what the UPR was collecting, I would be surprised. It's still early in the test, and I would like to redo the test after reversing the order of the cans later, but I am surprised so far. I'm hoping to get more miles on the truck soon so I can wrap up this phase of the test.

    Report 3:

    1000 Miles of Testing Results

    - The Weather*has been warmer lately. So the test began with sub freezing temperatures, and gradually increased through the 70's and topped off in the mid 80's yesterday. I couldn't have asked for a better range of temperatures for this test.

    - What they caught*was astounding to me. UPR was first in line, with the RX after it to catch anything the UPR might miss.
    The UPR stayed on track with what it has been accumulating for many months. Each time I emptied them, it had about the same amount. It's contents were mostly oil which smelled like used oil. It caught 17cc total which is just under 3 1/2 tsp.
    The RX had more than the UPR each time I emptied them. It's contents were an oil/fuel/water type mix that had a much stronger odor. Not a fuel smell, but a sharper chemical smell compared to the odor of used oil. It caught a total of 67cc which is just over 13 1/2 tsp.

    - Final totals:
    UPR - 17cc
    RX - 67cc

    The RX can caught 4 times the amount the UPR can caught,*after*the UPR can removed what it could. I said from the beginning I would be surprised if the RX can could pull 10% of what the UPR caught, since it was second in line. If someone told me it would catch an equal amount I would have said BS. For it to catch 4 times what the UPR can caught is unreal.

    Report 4:

    The routing of cans has been reversed*so the second phase of the test is underway. I cleaned the cans and hoses so neither has an advantage. I also checked the inside of the hoses as I disassembled everything. The exit hose from the UPR was dripping with oil and it made a mess as I took it apart. The exit hose from the UPR was clean and dry. It still looked new. That is what prompted me to clean all the hoses before starting this phase. Is the double can routing helping the second can*that*much, or is one can that much better. Time will tell again.

    Report 5:

    And now back to our regularly scheduled programming…


    Phase 2 is almost complete now, thanks to some extra mileage for work. I'll report on that soon and begin phase 3.


    As I said above, UPR shipped parts for me to do phase 3 of the test. I bought my UPR can in June, and they changed the can slightly since then. The new diffuser/extension will only fit cans made after that, so they shipped a full new kit to test. Thank you UPR for helping with this, and for your input in this thread.*
    After shipping the kit, Joe@UPR asked me to remove the mesh from the exit side of my existing can for the remainder of phase 2, and to remove the mesh from the exit side of the new can before starting phase 3. I removed it from both (phase 2 was half way done when I removed it from the existing can). When I was removing the mesh from the short side of the new can (in preparation for phase 3), I realized the diffuser was assembled backwards. For our 5.0 F150's the long side of the diffuser must be on the passenger side of the can when installed. I disassembled, removed the mesh packed up in the can top on the exit/passenger side, and reassembled the can with diffuser. For anyone who might have received their cans assembled by UPR, you should check to see if it was assembled correctly before installing. (EDIT: Joe notes below they assemble the cans for shipping, and all cans should be assembled for your own installation needs) I also had a small piece of the stainless steel mesh (1/8") drop out when I was doing that. I wasn't thrilled with that so I unrolled, and lightly tapped the mesh in case there were any other loose pieces, but there weren't. A quick note on the UPR kit... it is much improved since I bought mine. The hoses are pre cut to the proper lengths, the elbow fittings are nickel rather than plastic, and they include Ford OEM snap on valve cover and intake fittings.


    More to come soon!

    Report 6:

    Test Results

    -*I'll summarize*the test to date. The first phase was to test the UPR vs the RX catch cans on a 5.0, both base models, with the UPR first in line and RX installed to catch anything the UPR missed. Those first phase results were: UPR - 17cc, RX - 67cc. The 'first in line' UPR caught 20% of the total volume. See post 37 in this thread for more details. The cans were cleaned and reinstalled in reverse order for phase 2, RX first and then UPR.

    Phase 2 Test Results
    - The Weather*has been average northern Ohio spring weather. Some rain, fog, cool nights, warm and hot days.

    -*Driving*has been about the same through both phases. I good mix of rural roads, some small towns, highways, and approximately 40% of the miles on interstates at 65 - 80mph. Mostly average style driving, with a few very heavy accelerations mixed in. A little heavy hauling, and no towing.

    - What they caught*this time might have been predicted by some (after the results of phase 1). RX was first in line, with the UPR after it to catch anything the RX might miss.
    The combined volume of gunk was half of that caught in the first phase. The first phase had some cold weather which accounted for more water in the mix and the higher volume.
    The contents from the RX can was mostly oil/fuel, and had a strong chemical/solvent smell again. It caught 35.5cc total which is approximately 7 1/8 tsp.
    The UPR can caught about the same mix of oil/fuel, but didn't smell quite as strong. Halfway through this phase, Joe@UPR asked me to remove the mesh on the exit side of the UPR can. I did that, but noticed no difference in what it was catching. But since it was second in line, and there was little to catch, that's understandable. The UPR can caught 1.75cc total which is approximately 1/3 tsp. With so little collecting this time, I monitored the contents of the UPR can but didn't empty it until the end of the test.

    - Phase 2 Totals:
    RX - 35.5cc
    UPR - 1.75cc*

    -*Other tidbits*include the 'first in line' RX can caught 95% of the total volume. The exit hoses were very clean from both cans. The last few tanks of gas have produced slightly higher than my normal MPGs, but it's too early to tell on that (more to follow after phase 3).
    RX Performance Products/RevXtreme.com 941-721-1826

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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    -Phase 3,*using the UPR can extension and diffuser, is underway. Details will follow.


    Final Test Results

    -*I'll summarize*the test phases. The first phase was to test the UPR vs the RX catch cans on a 5.0, both base models, with the UPR first in line and RX installed to catch anything the UPR missed. Those first phase results were: UPR - 17cc, RX - 67cc. The 'first in line' UPR caught 20% of the total volume. See post 37 in this thread for more details on phase 1. The cans were cleaned and reinstalled in reverse order for phase 2, RX first and then UPR. The second phase results were: RX - 35.50cc, UPR - 1.75cc. The 'first in line' RX caught 95% of the total volume. See post 143 for more details on phase 2.

    Phase 3 Test Results

    - This time the UPR can*was first in line as in phase 1, but it had the new can extension and diffuser added. It also had the mesh material removed from the exit side of the can.

    - The Weather*has been average northern Ohio early summer weather. Some rain with warm and hot days.

    -*Driving*has been a good mix of rural roads, some small towns, highways, and approximately 60% of the miles on interstates at 65 - 80mph. Mostly average style driving, some steep hill climbs, and some very heavy accelerations mixed in. A little heavy hauling again, and no towing. I'll add some more thoughts on driving and MPGs below.*

    - What they caught*was a mixed bag. UPR was first in line, with the RX after it to catch anything the extended UPR might miss.
    The combined volume of gunk was down from the last phase, again. I assume it is due to the warmer weather and maybe my engine is using less oil with more miles? Either way, my test looks at the percent each can catches, compared to the total caught for that phase, so the volume isn't critical.
    The contents from the extended UPR can was mostly oil, and had a used oil smell. The UPR caught 14.75cc which is approximately 3 tsp.
    The RX can caught a fuel/water/oil mix. It smelled much more harsh again. The RX can caught 16.00cc which is approximately 3 1/4 tsp.

    - Phase 3 Totals:
    UPR - 14.75cc (48%)
    RX - 16.00cc (52%)

    -*Other thoughts*on the results. The contents of each phase showed me the RX does a better job of removing more than oil. It always contained more water/fuel type liquids, while the UPR contained mostly oil. I don't know if it is due to the can design, the 'out front' mounting style of the RX, or both.
    For anyone buying or thinking of upgrading their UPR can, I strongly recommend figuring out how to mount it out front, and would definitely add the valve that Joe@UPR is offering. I really think the 'out front' cooling effect will help it catch even more, and the valve would be worth the price for ease of emptying it. Having the RX can to compare to when emptying, the front mount and valve are no brainers.
    As I said at the end of phase 2, my MPGs have increased slightly. I have done nothing different to my truck over the past year, other than adding the RX can to the UPR for this test. My driving style is very similar from tank to tank, I fill up at the same stations, etc. But since having both cans in series, and essentially removing 95% or more of the PCV byproducts, my MPGs have increased. Up to that point my lifetime MPGs were 17.5. Nearly every tank for the past year gave me the same results, 17.5. I would have some trips that would net 20 MPG, but the other short trips would always pull it back down for the same tank average - close to 17.5. My recent tank averages have all been over 18 MPG, with a few over 19, and as high as 19.5. My last tank included hauling approximately 1000 lbs of payload, through some long hills/mountains of PA, and I got 18.8 MPG. It could be the summer fuel mix combined with an engine that is broken in, but the timing is peculiar. Whatever the reason, I like it!


    Thank you*Eco Tuner (Tuner Boost) and Joe@UPR for your support, feedback, and willingness to listen to open criticism and suggestions through this test. Looking back though this thread today, I realized how rare it is to get input and support from competing manufacturers, through a comparison test like this. We have all learned quite a bit, and have real data to help make decisions. Hats off to you both! [/I]
    RX Performance Products/RevXtreme.com 941-721-1826

  13. #12
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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    This looks like a great solution! I'm assuming this works off the positive crankcase pressure?

  14. #13
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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    Dont ever want pressure int he crankcase, this pulls vacuum at all times to help ring seal as well.

    RX Performance Products/RevXtreme.com 941-721-1826

  15. #14
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    Re: Oil ingestion into the intake air charge and proper crankcase evacuation

    What were seeing in the 2014 and up GM V8 DI engines:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Pz0zTQ1bz0
    RX Performance Products/RevXtreme.com 941-721-1826

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