Injector or BAP
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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Injector or BAP in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; I just put a 2.55 pulley CAI and a tune and put down 552/542 the car is an A6 and ...
  1. #1
    Rock1 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Question Injector or BAP

    I just put a 2.55 pulley CAI and a tune and put down 552/542 the car is an A6 and Im now maxing my injectors at WOT (tune was dialed back till resolution is had).

    Now after researching i found that

    1. Not many people ran into this problem with a simple pulley swap.
    2. Quite a bit of information I found staes that it shouldn't be the case as our injectors are capable of handling this power easily, but the true problem seems to be the voltage that is in the fuel pump which our injectors are managed by.

    So my question is rather then buy injectors has anyone simply used a boost a pump to rectify the injector issue or did you just go and purchase new injectors, and if new injectors were used how much room did you have left? Would 63pds suffice?

    Mind you the car is not going to be modded any further as the numbers I put down are sufficient enough for me as this is my DD.

    So BAP or new injectors? Any and all input is appreciated as I really want to drive my car at its full capacity.

    Dynosheet


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  3. #2
    Rock1 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Wow 57 views and nothing..

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    SPEED74V is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock1 View Post
    Wow 57 views and nothing..
    In my opinion I would trust injectors more than a BAP - even if you switch to 63lb injectors it would help. If you are going to do injectors, you might as well do the ID850's and spend the money right the first time. I am sitting at 540hp with headers & cai and the stock injectors are at about 100% duty cycle at WOT. When I get an upper & lower pulley put on in a couple months, I am adding the ID850's as well.

  5. #4
    Rock1 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Quote Originally Posted by SPEED74V View Post
    In my opinion I would trust injectors more than a BAP - even if you switch to 63lb injectors it would help. If you are going to do injectors, you might as well do the ID850's and spend the money right the first time. I am sitting at 540hp with headers & cai and the stock injectors are at about 100% duty cycle at WOT. When I get an upper & lower pulley put on in a couple months, I am adding the ID850's as well.
    Thanks for the response Speed.

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    SPEED74V is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Quote Originally Posted by Rock1 View Post
    Thanks for the response Speed.
    No problem - hope it helps. I know Lingenfelter uses the 63lb injectors as part of their packages, so they would work just fine. I am having LPE do mine in March but we are going to use the ID850's instead. From the information that I have seen and the flow characteristics, they are the best out there. Those are some pretty good numbers you put up also!! Let us know what direction you go and how things turn out.

  7. #6
    Rock1 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Quote Originally Posted by SPEED74V View Post
    No problem - hope it helps. I know Lingenfelter uses the 63lb injectors as part of their packages, so they would work just fine. I am having LPE do mine in March but we are going to use the ID850's instead. From the information that I have seen and the flow characteristics, they are the best out there. Those are some pretty good numbers you put up also!! Let us know what direction you go and how things turn out.
    I'm more then likely just going to get the 63lbs from LPE and call it a day. The other injectors are nice but I just can't bring myself to drop that much on injectors.

    And thank you for the compliment I'm extremely impressed with those numbers especially out of an auto.

  8. #7
    glgjr is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Rock1,

    I bought the 63, then the FAST 85 and now the ID 2000s. You might as well go with the 85 and don't keep buying them like me.

    Gene

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    muohio is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Where is the best place to buy either the 63lb or ID850 injectors? I'm also at this power level and probably need to be looking at this as well.

  10. #9
    glgjr is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Quote Originally Posted by muohio View Post
    Where is the best place to buy either the 63lb or ID850 injectors? I'm also at this power level and probably need to be looking at this as well.
    PM DSteck

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    Re: Injector or BAP

    ^^^What he said.

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    SPEED74V is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Quote Originally Posted by glgjr View Post
    PM DSteck
    Thats where I got mine

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    Luna. is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Along these lines, what I would be really interested to know is...

    How can one generate, say, 75 psi (through whatever injector), and NOT use a BAP?

  14. #13
    Rock1 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna. View Post
    Along these lines, what I would be really interested to know is...

    How can one generate, say, 75 psi (through whatever injector), and NOT use a BAP?
    Luna from my research it seems 65 psi (4.5 bar is limit of the relief valve on the pump assembly) so the only way to reach your goal of 75psi would be to:

    1- Block the relief valve on the fuel pump itself, (which would give you a possible variable in fuel pressure as it wont be regulated.
    2- Cannibalize a ZR1 fuel pump and swap relief valves (ZR1 flow at 87psi/6 bar, which is the limit of the ZR1 relief valve)
    3- Replace the fuel system with a return style system and totally removing the FPCM tables as well as block any subsequent errors ($$$)

    I do have to say though I am very surprised that with the mods I see that people have on there V's and with just my pulley swap I maxed the injectors out (on full tune I saw as much as 115% duty cycle, and tuned back to 100% as the dyno above) and I have not seen more people claim that there duty cycle is extremely high and nobody else has maxed their injectors out with a custom tune (other then Wait4me).

    I do know that WAIT4ME had his tune tweaked to re-calibrate the FPCM so it could read a higher voltage and hence lower the duty cycle of the injectors. I played around in HP Tuners with what little tidbits I found but cant say that I have all the appropriate information to fully (and correctly) tune the FPCM for these values, so I left it alone.

    Another shocking thing was when I called LPE and expressed to them that I was seeing this high duty cycle and if they had seen this before they said that they have never had that issue with just a pulley swap, they usually swap injectors on the next package up, but even then they dont see maxed duty cycles so that does tell me that they
    1. Tune the FPCM tables such as Wait4me or 2. have an extremely mild tune in the car. They asked me several times what we to the tune to have that happen and I replied that we didn't do anything special to the car we just did the regular tuning of Air/Fuel/Timing nothing radical at all A/F is at 11.4 across the board but after a few runs we do see the ECM pull timing due to heat (which is another gripe in itself as after 3 runs the timing was being pulled which tells me this car is a SPONGE for heat-soak).

    Sorry for the Rant

  15. #14
    jrcmlc is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Take a look at this screenshot. The injectors are already at 92-93% and this is a tune and cold air intake only.

    Joe
    Attached Images

  16. #15
    Rock1 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Injector or BAP

    Quote Originally Posted by jrcmlc View Post
    Take a look at this screenshot. The injectors are already at 92-93% and this is a tune and cold air intake only.

    Joe
    Agreed thats why I cant imagine how people are running there cars..and you will only see higher once it gets colder outside. At least your like me and datalog once things are done to the car. Not 247 but normally enough to view tolerances with the car.

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