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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important! in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by RWTD I'm not pointing fingers are any tuner specific. Who I'm pointing fingers at is ANY tuner ...
  1. #76
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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Quote Originally Posted by RWTD View Post
    I'm not pointing fingers are any tuner specific. Who I'm pointing fingers at is ANY tuner who is hacking the tune, and that's the majority of them in the GM tuning world (it's not nearly as bad in the Ford world), unfortunate as it is. Things like NOT renormalizing the airmass axis on the spark tables so that the additional boost added doesn't get recognized, hacking the PE (Power Enrichment, aka WOT fueling tables), instead of setting it as Desired/Commanded, and then obtaining that via proper MAF transfer table tuning, etc, etc, this list goes on.
    Sounds interesting, can you post up here so we can all get some knowledge?

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    DrumStix is offline Cadillac Owner
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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Quote Originally Posted by snzuloz View Post
    Sounds interesting, can you post up here so we can all get some knowledge?
    That's what I was thinking. Are you going to bash tuners and tactics while not answering PM's about specifics, or, are you going to jump in with specific tuning calibrations you would like to see others using in the field? I don't think some on this board are as far off as you may think. If you want to start a thread about proper tuning, data logging, desired and commanded AF and then tuning the MAF calibrations and associated frequencies I'd be willing to contribute.

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    Luna. is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Quote Originally Posted by wait4me View Post
    You cant really put on a boost a pump on these. As you will see, when you do there is a 72 AMP SPIKE when it initially kicks on, which will cause a system reset on the WHOLE CAR. causing a massive stall condition that you will see and feel. Even changing the power and grounds to larger gauge all the way to the pumps does not fix this issue.

    So that is why we had to figure out the fpdm programming.
    Interesting.

    I believe others, including D3, use a boost-a-pump (Kenne Bell or Magnavolt) all the time. As a matter of fact, I think the only time D3 doesn't use a boost-a-pump is when they go to some monster fuel pump.

    As for my car, it has a boost-a-pump installed and the engine hasn't missed a beat since I got it from D3; I haven't experienced any of the conditions you note above.

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Quote Originally Posted by DrumStix View Post
    That's what I was thinking. Are you going to bash tuners and tactics while not answering PM's about specifics, or, are you going to jump in with specific tuning calibrations you would like to see others using in the field? I don't think some on this board are as far off as you may think. If you want to start a thread about proper tuning, data logging, desired and commanded AF and then tuning the MAF calibrations and associated frequencies I'd be willing to contribute.
    DrumStix, you just sent me a PM yesterday, and I didn't see it until now, so my apologies. I'll be happy to help you with that information, but we also need to discuss it. I'll PM you back tonight later (about to go eat).

    Everyone, I'm not here to bash anyone. Some of my postings so far may seem to track in that direction, but that's far from reality. I'll work to tone that out. However, I can't help but to get a bit peeved still by those who claim one thing, or chat up vaporware, all to do something entirely different than they are claiming. Many who tune for a living are always quick to make themselves look like what they are doing/claiming now is something they've always been doing/claiming. We all learn something new every day, and there is NOT any shame of admitting that. Furthermore, I'll be the first to admit that I wrong, or I don't know. Though, I'm quick to point out falsehoods in the tuning community, yet when some see something they don't agree with, even when it has zero to do with them, they'll often come crashing in attempting to make one look untrusting or inexperienced (not even). If you're going to talk to the talk, then walk the walk. The truth hurts often in the tuning world.

    I've had some tuners get irate towards me for the amount of time I spend and the amount of information I give out on various sites (such as ModularFords, LS2, and HPTuners). Some even claim I'm taking away their business by giving out information that teaches one how to properly tune. That couldn't be further from the truth. Back in the days ,it was even worse when there were only a couple handfuls of us experienced tuners across the country (world, for that matter) - it was as if EVERYTHING was a secret. You should see the amount of individuals I work with that have their own tuning software, yet ultimately would rather let someone more experienced help them. Even so, the tuning software is available to everyone in this community, and it is my mission to help ensure that those possessing it are utilizing it correctly, and ultimately safely (I regularly build free starting tunes for many folks over on HPT's site).

    So, yes, I'll be happy to start a new thread asking of those on here who actually tune themselves, and working to spread information and proper tuning techniques. You can also always depend on the tuning software companys' forums (I hang out a lot in those, just as does a TON of other reputable and knowledgable tuners, both on the end-user and professional level).

    What it boils down to is that I'm ALL about helping the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna. View Post
    Interesting.

    I believe others, including D3, use a boost-a-pump (Kenne Bell or Magnavolt) all the time. As a matter of fact, I think the only time D3 doesn't use a boost-a-pump is when they go to some monster fuel pump.

    As for my car, it has a boost-a-pump installed and the engine hasn't missed a beat since I got it from D3; I haven't experienced any of the conditions you note above.
    The proper BAP will work just fine, and as long as it is installed and used correctly. Also, Whipple uses a MSD (I stated Magnavolt previously by mistake - brain fart) on their Camaro kits. Their system is pretty trick. If you go over to Whipple's site's Camaro page, the info there listed shows this:

    http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/...sp?ProdID=1243

    - MSD ™ Fuel pump booster with pre-defined voltage curve for less pump duty cycle then other pump boosters, only supplies increased voltage when needed, others are on/off
    - MSD ™ Fuel pump booster voltage curve can be adjusted by user, no need to purchase "competition" version, already included

    DSteck (over on HPT's site) stated this about the MSD pump booster:

    The pump booster that Whipple supplied seemed to work flawless on the 2010 Camaro my friend installed a Whipple kit on. Effective pressure was exactly what it should have been at all times.
    Regards,

    James

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    BAP Theory Explained.

    This part piqued my interest:

    "MYTH: “THAT EXTRA VOLTAGE WILL HURT YOUR PUMP”
    FACT: The installation of our Boost-A-Pump will actually increase pump life by reducing its workload."

    As has been explained in this thread and in that PDF, once the PWM (Pulse Width Modulation) duty cycle reaches 100%, that's it, there is no more work to be had out of that pump. The BAP increases the pulse amplitude, so that each of the pulses can do more work (voltage times duration).

    What I don't get is how they can claim it doesn't affect the longevity of the pump. While the duty cycle (pulse width) can be lower for a given flow, the pulse amplitudes are higher (when the BAP is activated). How is a greater pulse amplitude somehow easier on a pump designed for a lower pulse amplitude?

    There is no free lunch.

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Quote Originally Posted by RWTD View Post
    The proper BAP will work just fine, and as long as it is installed and used correctly. Also, Whipple uses a MSD (I stated Magnavolt previously by mistake - brain fart) on their Camaro kits. Their system is pretty trick. If you go over to Whipple's site's Camaro page, the info there listed shows this:

    http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/...sp?ProdID=1243
    I guess I'm confused... Kenne Bell or Magnavolt aren't good BAPs??

    Quote Originally Posted by RWTD View Post
    1 (easiest): Kenne Bell Boost-a-Pump or a Magnavolt (what Whipple uses on their Camaro kits). If you install this, it is imperative that you install this post-FPCM, otherwise you'll run into issues with the FPCM controlling the voltage going into it, and preventing any additional voltage going out. This is contrary to a Ford with a similar system, in that you should always install a BAP pre-FPDM, as Ford's FPDM (fuel pump driver module) will allow for the additional voltage into it and out, as needed. LPE sells a complete kit that includes a KB BAP here, however you may be able to buy a KB BAP and build your own wiring harness for cheaper. Kenne Bell (BAP) and Whipple (uses Magnavolt) install their systems post-FPCM.

    2: Install pumps with the ability to flow more lph at the same voltage output, such as the ZR1 pump (though, from my understanding, it will not fit). Keep in mind, you can NOT install pumps that aren't variable voltage style, otherwise they will not flow properly, and they will eventually burn up.

    And your brain-fart comment has me curious...are you suggesting that Magnavolt BAPs aren't any good?

    If so, I think the guys at Rouch would like to have a few words with you, as they specifically recommend Kenne Bell or Magnavolt.

    In any case, the point of my reply was that I found the comment that, "You cant really put on a boost a pump on these" strange, if not flat-out incorrect.

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna. View Post
    I guess I'm confused... Kenne Bell or Magnavolt aren't good BAPs??

    And your brain-fart comment has me curious...are you suggesting that Magnavolt BAPs aren't any good?

    If so, I think the guys at Rouch would like to have a few words with you, as they specifically recommend Kenne Bell or Magnavolt.

    In any case, the point of my reply was that I found the comment that, "You cant really put on a boost a pump on these" strange, if not flat-out incorrect.
    I *never* said any BAP was bad. I stated I misspoke and that Whipple uses an MSD Pump Booster, not the Magnavolt that I had originally stated (simple mistake, hence my "brain fart" comment). Whipple's MSD Pump Booster is working flawlessly on their Camaro kits, as is KB's BAP on their Camaro kits.

    http://www.msdignition.com/Products/...e_Booster.aspx

    I highly recommend KB BAPs to folks all the time, especially in the Ford market. I have never used a Magnavolt.

    In regards to the KB BAP, they go about the installation and use of their standard BAP differently than what some have been installing/using them as (those that have had problems). There's plenty of individuals everywhere that has used KB's BAP on their FPCM equipped GMs without any issues whatsoever. There has also been some to have issues, but it's usually due to installation/use of.

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Excuse me ignorance, but there is just too much to read through!
    if i was going to go some simply pulley/airbox/tune type mods, would injectors be required? or any other means? this is an A6 car.

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Excuse me ignorance, but there is just too much to read through!
    if i was going to go some simply pulley/airbox/tune type mods, would injectors be required? or any other means? this is an A6 car.

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Quote Originally Posted by RWTD View Post
    DrumStix, you just sent me a PM yesterday, and I didn't see it until now, so my apologies.

    James
    Thanks. I had just seen you online like 12 times since I sent it so I was wondering if you might be ignoring the PM. I got your reply this morning asking if I was a shop.

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Quote Originally Posted by NiNoDuKEz View Post
    Excuse me ignorance, but there is just too much to read through!
    if i was going to go some simply pulley/airbox/tune type mods, would injectors be required? or any other means? this is an A6 car.
    Short answer, no. You can, and I have, installed a 9.5" pulley, cai and tune, along with a cam and have not needed to change anything in the fuel system yet. Are those the mods you were thinking of doing? I'm not sure how close you would be with a 10" ring is why I ask.
    It has a little room to go and I'm headed to the shop for exhaust today, then do some logging and might need to toss in some injectors.

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    I'm curious- how does one (who lacks any real knowledge of tuning) determine if a tuner is a "hack" or "legit"? What questions should we be asking?
    The primary reason I have not made any modifications to my car is that I still see serious discrepencies with modified "claims". CAI is worthless/header are worthless/watch out for hacked tunes, etc. It's not as if S/C LSx's are new, so why all the confusion?

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Quote Originally Posted by Umrswimr View Post
    I'm curious- how does one (who lacks any real knowledge of tuning) determine if a tuner is a "hack" or "legit"? What questions should we be asking?
    The primary reason I have not made any modifications to my car is that I still see serious discrepencies with modified "claims". CAI is worthless/header are worthless/watch out for hacked tunes, etc. It's not as if S/C LSx's are new, so why all the confusion?
    I would say just keep asking questions and gathering your own knowledge of these systems and components and how they interact. Don't just take someones word for it if you are not comfortable in the modding arena, just like anything else you undertake in life. Even if the car is left stock dealers have been know to take customers for a ride. No really. Knowing what's up can lower that repair bill.
    Find a reputable shop that is willing to answer your questions and build a relationship with you. It's not all secrets and black magic, especially when you foot the bill. I would not accept that on a $50m project so I would not accept that on a $65K car.
    Also note that some of these shops may raise doubt in public to raise revenue and compete. That can often be countered in the forums with skilled tuners who help out the community as a hobby.

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Quote Originally Posted by NiNoDuKEz View Post
    Excuse me ignorance, but there is just too much to read through!
    if i was going to go some simply pulley/airbox/tune type mods, would injectors be required? or any other means? this is an A6 car.
    This is a hot topic.... Drumstix is correct,depends on pulley size too... but you also need to have a good tuner shop. Also depends on your elevation.......

    IMO I prefer to have more safety..... So I would pick up some injectors if your questionable about your shop.........

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    Re: CTS-V2 Fuel System Warning - Important!

    Quote Originally Posted by DrumStix View Post
    Short answer, no. You can, and I have, installed a 9.5" pulley, cai and tune, along with a cam and have not needed to change anything in the fuel system yet. Are those the mods you were thinking of doing? I'm not sure how close you would be with a 10" ring is why I ask.
    It has a little room to go and I'm headed to the shop for exhaust today, then do some logging and might need to toss in some injectors.
    Curious, what's your Actual (Uncorrected) power numbers, and what elevation? Also, have you datalogged your fuel pressures and injector duty cycle? And if so, have you done such lately (with the greater airmass everyone is experience for winter)? I'd be interested in your particular car's logs, please. Thanks a lot!

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