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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Modified V2 vs. GTR question in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by Luna. I'm a big an of the GTR, so make no mistake about it, but let's not ...
  1. #46
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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna. View Post
    I'm a big an of the GTR, so make no mistake about it, but let's not mislead ourselves about that comparing that against the ZR1, which remains, in my mind, about as good as it gets when it comes to bang-for-your-buck performance automobiles.

    Yeah, the GTR is within 0.1 seconds of the ZR1 in the 1/4 mile, but that's only because the ZR1 can't launch nearly as good.

    Just look at the MPH differences in the 1/4 in the quote above--the ZR1 is FLYING past the GTR at the end of the 1/4 mile. I mean, it's almost spooky how much faster the ZR1 really is than the GTR, and the 911, for that matter...
    Exactly! And if you take a look at the rest of the tape:
    At the 0-60 mark the GTR has the edge, but it ends there. By 0-70 the Porsche already passes it and by 0-80 the ZR1 flies by both of them and doesn't look back. At 0-120 mph, the ZR1 is done in a mere 9.9 while waiting 1.6 seconds (eternity) for the GTR to hit that in 11.5 and the 911 Turbo in 11.4.

  2. #47
    Luna. is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Quote Originally Posted by 4gear70 View Post
    Exactly! And if you take a look at the rest of the tape:
    At the 0-60 mark the GTR has the edge, but it ends there. By 0-70 the Porsche already passes it and by 0-80 the ZR1 flies by both of them and doesn't look back. At 0-120 mph, the ZR1 is done in a mere 9.9 while waiting 1.6 seconds (eternity) for the GTR to hit that in 11.5 and the 911 Turbo in 11.4.

    Yeah, I'd struggle to match almost ANY car against the ZR1 and expect it to "win." That thing is simply SCARY, to say NOTHING about what you can do modding the friggin LS9... it's just on another planet in terms of power-to-weight ratio

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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Quote Originally Posted by mannyz View Post
    Those trap speeds are indicative of possible 10second runs on slicks only.

    I could probably get damn close with stock tires or DR's for sure. What's the record, 10:80 so far? I usually tie or beat all records for each car I've owned. Anyone got a ZR1 they wanna make history with?

  4. #49
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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna. View Post
    Yeah, I'd struggle to match almost ANY car against the ZR1 and expect it to "win." That thing is simply SCARY, to say NOTHING about what you can do modding the friggin LS9... it's just on another planet in terms of power-to-weight ratio
    You want to know scary? Put the dual clutch SMG style tranny in it and DR's. Watch the hell out. I think someone did an A6 straight into a Z06 and it went 10:50. Power to weight indicates it is completely possibly. 650 HP is good for 9:90's with a 3200 lb car and decent gearing, not road course gearing.

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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    At a private track rental, the ZR1 went high 10's and was trapping 130mph+. It's a complete monster and if you look at the stats, it's easy to see why. It's also about $40 grand more than the GT-R. 2 totally different cars at a different price range. Still, I got nothin' but respect for the ZR1.

    It'll take a handful of mods and money to make a GT-R beat a ZR1 in a real race. The following is an example of a GT-R that'll spank a ZR1 but after you get done with all the mods, the price is probably right around the ZR1's MSRP.



    Anyway, back to the OT. I do think a modded V can beat a bone stock GT-R on a highway roll as long as the V has traction. I had very little traction with my modded V and it was hard for me to get all the power down. The GT-R's strength is it's traction. The V also has an instant jump while the GT-R has turbos that have very little lag, but it is there compared to the V's supercharged torque. Make sure your tires are sticky enough, the roads are in good condition, and that the car isn't overheated and I think the modded V will put a smackdown on the GT-R. $2k in the GT-R though (midpipe and cobb accessport) and you're in trouble.

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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham CTS-V View Post
    Anyway, back to the OT. I do think a modded V can beat a bone stock GT-R on a highway roll as long as the V has traction. I had very little traction with my modded V and it was hard for me to get all the power down. The GT-R's strength is it's traction. The V also has an instant jump while the GT-R has turbos that have very little lag, but it is there compared to the V's supercharged torque. Make sure your tires are sticky enough, the roads are in good condition, and that the car isn't overheated and I think the modded V will put a smackdown on the GT-R. $2k in the GT-R though (midpipe and cobb accessport) and you're in trouble.
    Agreed.

    I'm very lightly modded and I like my chances against a BONE STOCK GT-R. Unfortunately, in my neck of the woods the chances of finding a completely stock one are slim to none. And although it's easy to add alot of power to the "V", a GT-R responds at least as well to mods if not better. Add to that the importance of AWD as power increases and the GT-R's advantage widens.

    That said, the last time I was at the track there was a GT-R running. I think he was there out of curiosity and it was obvious he wasn't all that familiar with getting the car down a 1/4 mile. He was running nearly a full second and 8 mph slower than I was that day.

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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham CTS-V View Post

    It'll take a handful of mods and money to make a GT-R beat a ZR1 in a real race. The following is an example of a GT-R that'll spank a ZR1 but after you get done with all the mods, the price is probably right around the ZR1's MSRP.
    Pffffft, just add 40 grand to the Zr1 as well. Any car can be made to do spectacular things with $. Just look at nascar, lol. They put billions into making an archaic truck arm based, carbureted tank with small tires make HP and hold more than 1.5 G's.

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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotham CTS-V View Post
    At a private track rental, the ZR1 went high 10's and was trapping 130mph+. It's a complete monster and if you look at the stats, it's easy to see why. It's also about $40 grand more than the GT-R.
    Since the GT-R has crept up in price considerably the past 2 years, the price gap is only about $24k now. The MSRP for a 2010 GT-R Premium is $83k, and the MSRP for a 2010 ZR1 is $107k. $24k is a lot of coin, but far less than $40k.

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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Interesting thread. They are both great cars. In terms of comfort and luxury the V2 wins hands down. I love my GTR that is for sure but luxury car it isn't. I drove the V2 extensively before buying my GTR and was REALLY impressed with the interior, features and powertrain. I do sometimes miss having a clutch but don't regret getting the GTR. From low speeds it's a monster. Modded or not a V2 has no chance off the line especially if the GTR is modded. At higher speeds I think a modded V may have an upper hand (at say 120 MPH+). The GTR's stock turbo's are pretty tiny. I'm upgrading mine soon (looking to make about 800 WHP on pump gas, 1000 WHP on race). That being said a lot of GTR's are running high 10's at 129 MPH+ with just a y pipe and a reflash. That is very fast for an investment of less than $2000.

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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Exactly! And if you take a look at the rest of the tape:
    At the 0-60 mark the GTR has the edge, but it ends there. By 0-70 the Porsche already passes it and by 0-80 the ZR1 flies by both of them and doesn't look back. At 0-120 mph, the ZR1 is done in a mere 9.9 while waiting 1.6 seconds (eternity) for the GTR to hit that in 11.5 and the 911 Turbo
    in 11.4.

    This pretty much tells the story as traction is key in this circumstance. Good info.

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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Quote Originally Posted by V&Vette View Post
    Exactly! And if you take a look at the rest of the tape:
    At the 0-60 mark the GTR has the edge, but it ends there. By 0-70 the Porsche already passes it and by 0-80 the ZR1 flies by both of them and doesn't look back. At 0-120 mph, the ZR1 is done in a mere 9.9 while waiting 1.6 seconds (eternity) for the GTR to hit that in 11.5 and the 911 Turbo
    in 11.4.
    This pretty much tells the story as traction is key in this circumstance. Good info.
    BTW: originally posted by 4gear70

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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Quote Originally Posted by Guru0006 View Post
    I'm upgrading mine soon (looking to make about 800 WHP on pump gas, 1000 WHP on race).
    Plan on investing a LOT of money, because if you think the stock internals of that little 3.7L or the entire drivetrain can handle 1,150 hp with no modification, think again.

    That being said a lot of GTR's are running high 10's at 129 MPH+ with just a y pipe and a reflash. That is very fast for an investment of less than $2000.
    True, but that's also an $85k+ car with no warranty. At 129 mph trap speed, that must be pushing close to 650hp at the crank, so obviously that reflash turns the boost up a lot. It gets a lot more expensive than $2000 when the transmission, clutches, diff, transfer case, and engine get lunched.

    Not for nothing, but these GT-R fish tales are beginning to sound like the old MKIV Supra Turbo stories all over again. Remember those? Just pull a hose off for $20, and you'll beat any Lambo ever created and change the rotation of the earth... riiiiggghhhhtttttt....

  13. #58
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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Quote Originally Posted by Z06ified View Post
    Plan on investing a LOT of money, because if you think the stock internals of that little 3.7L or the entire drivetrain can handle 1,150 hp with no modification, think again.



    True, but that's also an $85k+ car with no warranty. At 129 mph trap speed, that must be pushing close to 650hp at the crank, so obviously that reflash turns the boost up a lot. It gets a lot more expensive than $2000 when the transmission, clutches, diff, transfer case, and engine get lunched.

    Not for nothing, but these GT-R fish tales are beginning to sound like the old MKIV Supra Turbo stories all over again. Remember those? Just pull a hose off for $20, and you'll beat any Lambo ever created and change the rotation of the earth... riiiiggghhhhtttttt....
    Nah lol. It's just the cheaper equivalent to a 997.2TT PDK with it's own unique strengths and weaknesses.

    The car is definitely beatable, as is any car.

    A ton of guys are running y-pipe & tune. One or two guys even hit a 10.9 with just an ECU tune. It's a car that responds very well to mods. Many people have them as daily drivers; however, they are new cars and time will really tell how stout they are. Supposedly, a mild bolt-on or 2 and a tune is a safe mod. Going past that, you need to upgrade quite a bit. Tranny, turbos, etc etc. That's why I said realistically $40k to make it into a sub-10 second car. To get mid 10's, you need upgraded injectors, intakes, blow off valves, spark plugs, and a few other goodies. The stock turbos will be maxed out. You probably need some cooling work done too. $2k (y-pipe and tune) to make it a sub-11 second car.

    And to DrumStix, I totally agree. But we're talking modded V's and I was just throwing out the fact that modded GT-R's are capable of pretty fast times with enough money put into them (as are most cars).

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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Look at the most recent Road and Track article with the ZR1, 911 Turbo, and GTR comparison. While GM has put together a great car in the ZR1 its important to look at the horsepower rating when evaluating this comparison. With 650hp is SHOULD win every category, but it doesn't. The Porsche is 500hp and the Nissan is 485hp for the record. The Nissan is almost 200 hp less than the ZR1 and is almost 4000 pnds. With "only" 485hp, it wins 0-60mph tests (real world driving stop light to stop light) and just gets beat at the 1/4 and by only a tenth. Shave some weight from the Nissan or bump up the 485hp with more power (as other posters have said) and the ZR1 is in the dust. For the price difference between the two the GTR is the better value imo with better techonology behind it.

    Add AWD or a dual clutch tranny to the ZR1 and that car would be in Supercar territory but the weight would go up proportionately too.

    The V is great, no bones about it, I love mine except for the rattles, squeaky seats, sunroof crackling, wheel clicking, and 6 speed manual that is hard to get from 1st to 2nd when the car is cold. If they can address those complaints (and they need to) I'd be happier but considering I have a 2009 first year its understandable. The car is a sleeper to most by standers but performs admirably.

  15. #60
    Luna. is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Modified V2 vs. GTR question

    Quote Originally Posted by v4meinsandiego View Post
    Look at the most recent Road and Track article with the ZR1, 911 Turbo, and GTR comparison. While GM has put together a great car in the ZR1 its important to look at the horsepower rating when evaluating this comparison. With 650hp is SHOULD win every category, but it doesn't. The Porsche is 500hp and the Nissan is 485hp for the record. The Nissan is almost 200 hp less than the ZR1 and is almost 4000 pnds. With "only" 485hp, it wins 0-60mph tests (real world driving stop light to stop light) and just gets beat at the 1/4 and by only a tenth. Shave some weight from the Nissan or bump up the 485hp with more power (as other posters have said) and the ZR1 is in the dust. For the price difference between the two the GTR is the better value imo with better techonology behind it.
    Eh, I wouldn't go THAT far. The ZR1 is significantly faster than the GTR. Pretty much the ONLY reason the GTR is putting down those numbers is because it has AWD & these races are from a dead stop, that's it. If any race is from a roll (which is what most of my "altercations" I get involved in are ), the GTR doesn't stand a chance.

    Quote Originally Posted by v4meinsandiego View Post
    Add AWD or a dual clutch tranny to the ZR1 and that car would be in Supercar territory but the weight would go up proportionately too.
    This would then make the ZR1 utterly spank the GTR in just about every single acceleration test & it wouldn't even be close.

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