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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by BAZ007 Hey guys, I am Amazed how the M5 Forum JUST CANT TAKE IT, that an almost ...
  1. #16
    MacOSR is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by BAZ007 View Post
    Hey guys,

    I am Amazed how the M5 Forum JUST CANT TAKE IT, that an almost $30000 USD Cadillac is Performing better, with a very similar Quality, if not better depends on taste ...

    Here is the ongoing discussion about it ... CLICK


    In my opinion I would love to see a top speed run CTS-V vs M5 all the way !!! Maybe then someone will come down to reality !!!
    As a current M5 owner, a former CTS-V owner (gen 1) and someone who is in the market for a new car, I can say that the m5board gives props to the new cts-v and the way you characterize people on the board, such as me, is not accurate.

    I think the gen 2 cts-v is a vast improvement over the last one.

    The comparison should have been the automatic CTS-V (as I believe it is supposed to be quicker) and the SMG M5 (it is certainly quicker). The 6sp in the current M5 was done to please some US buyers that wouldn't purchase the SMG. The V-10 in the M5 is made to rev, and the SMG is much, much quicker.

    With that said: The new CTS-V is QUICKER then the M5. This is a fact! I don't know if it is faster or not? Does it go over 203mph? But does it really matter! I don't think anyone here would care if the CTS-V ONLY went 195mph because they bought the car they wanted!

    Both cars are very fine cars and very different cars. I really don't think that many M5 buyers would be tempted to buy a CTS-V. I know there are a couple that have bought a CTS-V while they wait for the next M5.

    I guess I just don't understand why some people make this a caddy/bimmer thing. It really isn't...I guess people buy what they like to drive! For now, I will stick to my M5 and wait for the new model next year.

  2. #17
    62Jeff is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by Jon View Post

    "Yet where it really matters, as a performance sedan, the CTS-V soundly spanks the M5. It's quicker in a straight line, handles better, steers better, even rides better "
    I still take issue with use of the word "spank" when the cars are so close performance wise, it's only the financial side that makes the CTS-V a better deal.

  3. #18
    vperl is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    M5 owners want to use the SMG ? M5

    Seems a tad interesting, maybe one of the tuners here in the US ought to get the M5 folks to start the game

  4. #19
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    I read the article in the print magazine, nice. Makes me want the V2 even more. Seriously considering kicking out the wife and moving in the V2.

  5. #20
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by proexpert View Post
    I read the article in the print magazine, nice. Makes me want the V2 even more. Seriously considering kicking out the wife and moving in the V2.
    Watch those chrome exhaust tips. They're more than likely sharp on the inside and may make you bleed!

  6. #21
    vperl is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by MacOSR View Post
    ot accurate.

    The comparison should have been the automatic CTS-V (as I believe it is supposed to be quicker) and the SMG M5 (it is certainly quicker). The 6sp in the current M5 was done to please some US buyers that wouldn't purchase the SMG. The V-10 in the M5 is made to rev, and the SMG is much, much quicker.
    *********************************************


    I am in the dark here, but maybe someone can explain to me the difference of the SMG M5 and the 2009 V .

    I am guessing that the SMG M5 is built in a separate facility , because it would be very hard for the M5 SMG to be built on the regular M5 build line.

    The SMG model is like the upgraded model that American tuners
    do to the V2, after a owner has it modified, something like an in house "COBRA" builder that is next door and working for BMW.

    Seems to me if I am right, I will admit, I do not have a clue if any of this is right or wrong, but .... the M5 SMG is not Produced off the line as a regular produce sedan on the same production line....


    How wrong, and incorrect am I ? Probably way off

  7. #22
    BAZ007 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by vperl View Post
    *********************************************


    I am in the dark here, but maybe someone can explain to me the difference of the SMG M5 and the 2009 V .

    I am guessing that the SMG M5 is built in a separate facility , because it would be very hard for the M5 SMG to be built on the regular M5 build line.

    The SMG model is like the upgraded model that American tuners
    do to the V2, after a owner has it modified, something like an in house "COBRA" builder that is next door and working for BMW.

    Seems to me if I am right, I will admit, I do not have a clue if any of this is right or wrong, but .... the M5 SMG is not Produced off the line as a regular produce sedan on the same production line....


    How wrong, and incorrect am I ? Probably way off

    I cant tell if you are being sercastic or not ... , however the SMG M5 = the Automatic Version of M5 (Electrohydraulic manual transmission), 6sp = Manual Version.

    He is saying that the M5 with the SMG transmission is much faster than the 6sp one, which they should have chose for comparison...

  8. #23
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Road and Track tested the CTS-V vs. the M5 SMG. It was in a separate article in October 2008. It wasn't the full test, just a road course at Monticello.

    http://www.roadandtrack.com/article....rticle_id=6963

    Edmunds tested the CTS-V Auto vs. the M5 SMG in December 2008.

    http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpconta...6/pageNumber=1

  9. #24
    vperl is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by BAZ007 View Post
    I cant tell if you are being sercastic or not ... , however the SMG M5 = the Automatic Version of M5 (Electrohydraulic manual transmission), 6sp = Manual Version.

    He is saying that the M5 with the SMG transmission is much faster than the 6sp one, which they should have chose for comparison...
    **********************

    I was wondering if anyone reads the M5'ers cry " we got raw deal"

  10. #25
    MacOSR is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by vperl View Post
    *********************************************


    I am in the dark here, but maybe someone can explain to me the difference of the SMG M5 and the 2009 V .

    I am guessing that the SMG M5 is built in a separate facility , because it would be very hard for the M5 SMG to be built on the regular M5 build line.

    The SMG model is like the upgraded model that American tuners
    do to the V2, after a owner has it modified, something like an in house "COBRA" builder that is next door and working for BMW.

    Seems to me if I am right, I will admit, I do not have a clue if any of this is right or wrong, but .... the M5 SMG is not Produced off the line as a regular produce sedan on the same production line....


    How wrong, and incorrect am I ? Probably way off
    I can understand how you don't know these things. It is so hard to keep up with what is new, or even what is a few years old (SMG).

    There are many good sources out there for information on the M5, what is has, and what SMG means. I would suggest googling SMG or "What is SMG". This might help you understand these things!

  11. #26
    vperl is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by MacOSR View Post
    I can understand how you don't know these things. It is so hard to keep up with what is new, or even what is a few years old (SMG).

    There are many good sources out there for information on the M5, what is has, and what SMG means. I would suggest googling SMG or "What is SMG". This might help you understand these things!

    *************************************

    ThankYou so much, I will snatch that pebble from you soon.

  12. #27
    marktanner is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    SMG stands for Sequential Manual Gearbox. It has 7 speeds, and the M5 was designed to use this transmission. The shift speed is programmable to numerous positions, and there is some integration with throttle response, too. It is technically a manual transmission, but uses paddle shifters and has no clutch pedal. It is fully sequential, so there is no gear skipping. There is an automatic mode, but is universally decried as very jerky, and most people consider it to be pretty much unusable. The manual shifts can be jerky as well. This transmission does it's best work on the race track, not on the street.

    The manual transmission is an afterthought, developed from the previous M5 as a request from US buyers who were less than thrilled with the SMG. The basic transmission of the SMG could not be made into a true manual, due to the gear order, but this transmission was designed for the torque characteristics of the V-10, and the 6-speed manual was not. Further, at least the early manual M5s could not run with traction control defeated, unlike the SMG (or the V). This was detrimental to ultimate handling, as was noted in the Car and Driver test. The M5 apparently understeers too much, unless you turn off the TC, which then lets you get the tail out and turn in better. I think the current manual transmission cars can now defeat the traction control, but I'm not 100% sure of this, because of the Motor Trend video results.

    BMW offers the 6-speed stick as standard on the M3, and now offers a DSG as well. The double clutch gearbox is far smoother than the SMG, and does automatic better, but still not as good as a torque converter. One can expect that the next generation of M5s will offer this transmission as well. While these new transmissions are excellent, they still lack the driver involvement of a true manual that some of us still crave and demand.

  13. #28
    ericpd's Avatar
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by marktanner View Post
    SMG stands for Sequential Manual Gearbox. It has 7 speeds, and the M5 was designed to use this transmission. The shift speed is programmable to numerous positions, and there is some integration with throttle response, too. It is technically a manual transmission, but uses paddle shifters and has no clutch pedal. It is fully sequential, so there is no gear skipping. There is an automatic mode, but is universally decried as very jerky, and most people consider it to be pretty much unusable. The manual shifts can be jerky as well. This transmission does it's best work on the race track, not on the street.

    The manual transmission is an afterthought, developed from the previous M5 as a request from US buyers who were less than thrilled with the SMG. The basic transmission of the SMG could not be made into a true manual, due to the gear order, but this transmission was designed for the torque characteristics of the V-10, and the 6-speed manual was not. Further, at least the early manual M5s could not run with traction control defeated, unlike the SMG (or the V). This was detrimental to ultimate handling, as was noted in the Car and Driver test. The M5 apparently understeers too much, unless you turn off the TC, which then lets you get the tail out and turn in better. I think the current manual transmission cars can now defeat the traction control, but I'm not 100% sure of this, because of the Motor Trend video results.

    BMW offers the 6-speed stick as standard on the M3, and now offers a DSG as well. The double clutch gearbox is far smoother than the SMG, and does automatic better, but still not as good as a torque converter. One can expect that the next generation of M5s will offer this transmission as well. While these new transmissions are excellent, they still lack the driver involvement of a true manual that some of us still crave and demand.
    We all know what you mean, but technically, neither the M3 or M5 have automatic transmissions. BMW only offer one automatic transmission for passenger cars,... the 7 speed steptronic or something like that,... it's not offered as an option for any M vehicle. Everything you say is 100% spot on, except when you use "automatic" to describe the SMG and DCT. On the surface it may seem like a trivial distinction, but technically a big difference. SMG and DCT = automated!

  14. #29
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by ericpd View Post
    We all know what you mean, but technically, neither the M3 or M5 have automatic transmissions. BMW only offer one automatic transmission for passenger cars,... the 7 speed steptronic or something like that,... it's not offered as an option for any M vehicle. Everything you say is 100% spot on, except when you use "automatic" to describe the SMG and DCT. On the surface it may seem like a trivial distinction, but technically a big difference. SMG and DCT = automated!
    So you're saying that with the M3 nor M5 you cannot start the car, put it into "drive", and take off without having to MANUALLY shift the car?

    Ok pal. Go back to sippin your German Juice

    (just messin with ya btw haha)

  15. #30
    concorso is offline Cadillac Owners Master
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    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests

    Quote Originally Posted by ericpd View Post
    We all know what you mean, but technically, neither the M3 or M5 have automatic transmissions. BMW only offer one automatic transmission for passenger cars,... the 7 speed steptronic or something like that,... it's not offered as an option for any M vehicle. Everything you say is 100% spot on, except when you use "automatic" to describe the SMG and DCT. On the surface it may seem like a trivial distinction, but technically a big difference. SMG and DCT = automated!

    Quote Originally Posted by marktanner
    Re: Motor Trend M5 vs CTS-V Performance Tests
    SMG stands for Sequential Manual Gearbox. It has 7 speeds, and the M5 was designed to use this transmission. The shift speed is programmable to numerous positions, and there is some integration with throttle response, too. It is technically a manual transmission, but uses paddle shifters and has no clutch pedal. It is fully sequential, so there is no gear skipping. There is an automatic mode, but is universally decried as very jerky, and most people consider it to be pretty much unusable. The manual shifts can be jerky as well. This transmission does it's best work on the race track, not on the street.


    I thought he was very clear about the differences.

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