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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, How is the manual mode on the auto? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by Short-Throw Jason, You're over focused again and seem to perpetually look for a reason to disagree. This ...
  1. #16
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    jvp
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Short-Throw View Post
    Jason,

    You're over focused again and seem to perpetually look for a reason to disagree. This has nothing to do with timed performance.
    Then you need to be careful when you throw out statements like:

    This is not a car you will want to track given it's weight.
    Pay attention to what you write. Others do. :-)

    And as for perpetually disagreeing with you, yep, I do tend to do that. We come from two different schools of thought on track driving, performance cars, et al. And, fortunately for us, forums are a place where we can discuss said differences.

    jas

  2. #17
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by jvp View Post
    forums are a place where we can discuss said differences.

    jas
    What differences?

    We both agree the car is an absolute blast to drive. We both agree it is fun on track, but there is cause and effect that should be considered.

    Most people have no idea how much weight effects the consumables and other components of a car when it's being tracked. I was giving a heads-up. It was an addendum!

    You may drive with your cruise control engaged on track, but many don't!

    Just a little humor there, no reason to disagree, embrace it!

    Have a great 2009!

    Mike

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    Heavychevy1 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    Back on topic, I could care less if I was 2 seconds slower with the manual mode, which I wont be, there is no chance I'd drive on the track with it in auto mode. It's not about competition, it's about fun. And I'm talking sparingly tracking, like 3-4 times a year tops. My E39 did great other than eating brakes like lunch, and having a weak clutch slipping, but the brakes were puny anyways.

    Maybe I'm wrong here, but if the idea of this car is to compete with the M5's of the world, then it has to take a beating at the track like the M5, it's got to be sporty like an M5 and perform like an M5, but for much less money. Speaking of which, new M5's are selling for mid 80's and slightly used ones in the 60's, so we will see what the V is made of for sure.

    Mike has driven pure race cars, and his opinions are as such, I had the same feeling after driving a panoz race car and getting back in a street car at the track, it's a totally different experience. But for many, tracking a sporty DD or weekend car is as close as it gets, and the V seems to fit the bill for an occasional DE, just not serious weekend warrior type guys.

  4. #19
    caddiedrummer is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    I have to say when I ordered the V it did not cross my mind to track it--no more than it did with my 06 M5. Like the M, this is a fun daily performance car. Would it be fun once or twice to run it on the track? --sure. If I am headed to VIR or Summit etc I will take the Vipers not the V.

  5. #20
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavychevy1 View Post
    Mike has driven pure race cars, and his opinions are as such, I had the same feeling after driving a panoz race car and getting back in a street car at the track, it's a totally different experience. But for many, tracking a sporty DD or weekend car is as close as it gets, and the V seems to fit the bill for an occasional DE, just not serious weekend warrior type guys.
    Dez,

    I agree with you, and if you're looking to spoil some of your friends fun in their M5s, this is the car! I'm sure as ownership increases we will all learn more of the cars pluses and minuses, on and off track.

    Don't forget, besides the race cars, I modded my street Z06 to a point where there was nothing more I could do and still keep it street legal, sans the motor. We all know HP is over-rated on the track, hence I understand your desire for coil-overs. You are a smart man.

    I wasn't trying to spoil anybody's fun by saying you need a specific car to run on track, any car will do. This car will scare many people, that's for sure. Just suggesting people do a little homework to make sure the car is always safe and to put a few bucks away for fresh brake pads and fluid.

    Dez, I know you get this already.

    Believe me, nothing would make me happier than seeing more of these cars making a statement on track.

    Mike

  6. #21
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Short-Throw View Post
    The paddles are somewhat similar to the Corvette.


    The paddles/gear selector in manual mode do not replace a true manual.

    Here are some differences:

    With the paddles, the engine blips and does a great job. With a manual you can blip and catch the gear when you want. The paddles are more precise but do not give you ultimate control.

    The up-shifts and downshifts are not quicker with the paddles vs the manual. The up-shifts in pure auto-mode will be faster than manually shifting no matter how fast you think you are.

    You will never miss a shift with the paddles, they won't even let you over-rev the engine.

    The paddles actually work quite well in traffic. 2nd gear starts and engine braking almost simulate the true manual effect.

    Bottom line:

    The paddles give you a great option to drive the car with more control, but do not replace a true manual whatsoever. If this wasn't a 2-ton+ luxury sedan, (that just happens to be one of the best performing to date) I would have chosen the manual. This is not a car you will want to track given it's weight. Because this car is equipped with such niceties, it is a pleasure to sit back once in a while and enjoy them without the right arm work out.

    Mike
    Damb Mike ... now I'm wondering if I shouldn't have ordered an auto instead of the M6. Actually, this is the first auto I've ever heard of that is reportedly faster than than the same car equiped with a manual with experienced drivers.

    Hmmm - wonder if it's too late to alter my order .. ?

    Rob

  7. #22
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by RapidRob View Post
    Damb Mike ... now I'm wondering if I shouldn't have ordered an auto instead of the M6. Actually, this is the first auto I've ever heard of that is reportedly faster than than the same car equiped with a manual with experienced drivers.

    Hmmm - wonder if it's too late to alter my order .. ?

    Rob
    Let me clarify a bit more.

    If your gut was to order the M6, you probably made the right call. This is definitely a driver's car. I'm happy with the A6 because of the dual role of business and pleasure it will take on.

    The Auto is faster when you simply hold your foot down, not when you use the manual mode. If you're a driver and ordered the M6 you will be quite happy. The differences are so close that unless you're drag racing for tenths, it will be a drivers race. If you're going to track the car on road courses or just like driving with that closer connectivity, my pick would be the M6. If the CTS-V was my only car I most likely would have ordered the M6.

    Like test taking, usually your first answer is the best! Enjoy the M6!


    Mike

  8. #23
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Short-Throw View Post
    Let me clarify a bit more.

    If your gut was to order the M6, you probably made the right call. This is definitely a driver's car. I'm happy with the A6 because of the dual role of business and pleasure it will take on.

    The Auto is faster when you simply hold your foot down, not when you use the manual mode. If you're a driver and ordered the M6 you will be quite happy. The differences are so close that unless you're drag racing for tenths, it will be a drivers race. If you're going to track the car on road courses or just like driving with that closer connectivity, my pick would be the M6. If the CTS-V was my only car I most likely would have ordered the M.

    Like test taking, usually your first answer is the best! Enjoy the M6!


    Mike
    Thanks for that, Mike, but I'm still thinking on it a wee bit. I still think that an experienced driver in THAT particular vehicle will almost always win out with a manual versus an auto, unless the manual has issues that delay the 'snicks' through the gears for some reason. I, of course, could be wrong in this case ... I guess time will tell. Frustrating that there were no V2's in my entire area to test-drive before ordering, but I had heard that the manual in the V2 was exceptionally smooth and fast.

    Anyway, I most likely will stick with the M6 ..

    Rob

  9. #24
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by RapidRob View Post
    Thanks for that, Mike, but I'm still thinking on it a wee bit. I still think that an experienced driver in THAT particular vehicle will almost always win out with a manual versus an auto, unless the manual has issues that delay the 'snicks' through the gears for some reason. I, of course, could be wrong in this case ... I guess time will tell. Frustrating that there were no V2's in my entire area to test-drive before ordering, but I had heard that the manual in the V2 was exceptionally smooth and fast.

    Anyway, I most likely will stick with the M6 ..

    Rob
    Autos are normally quicker in high powered cars. From imports to domestic and especially on a track. Manuals are lighter tho by some pounds.

  10. #25
    Heavychevy1 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by SmurfsElDog View Post
    Autos are normally quicker in high powered cars. From imports to domestic and especially on a track. Manuals are lighter tho by some pounds.
    What autos are you reffering to? And what tracks? The traditional autos with torque converters are not faster than a manual at all, especially on a track. They shift like matilda, and rob all sorts of power. You see that GM had to even give this auto shorter gears to help it keep up.

    If you look at Porsches, Manual is always faster than tipronic aside from launch control that keep the tip up to speed in 0-60 and 1/4 ,mile, but put them on a track and it's completely different.

    Try running an auto in T1 SCCA, bet you have no chance there. This goes along many other makes as well. Now the new sequential transmissions that have no torque converters may be faster, but the manufacturers design them that way because they spent all that money in R&D and they want to recoupe it. BMW watered down the manual M5 because they never wanted to make it but were pretty much forced to by BMW purists.

    The V2 is a special case where a traditional auto can keep up with the manual and that's only because it has shorter gears. But John Heinreicy said he'd choose the manual in a hearbeat, and that the only reason he drove the ring in the auto is because that's what he had the most and he would have had to learn all the shift points in the manual where as the auto did it for him.

    But I'd be willing to bet with some time behind the wheel, John would have went faster in the manual. And if more manufacturers left in engine braking, the gap would be even bigger.

  11. #26
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heavychevy1 View Post
    Try running an auto in T1 SCCA, bet you have no chance there.
    Oh you'd have a chance all right, slim and none. With the exception of the new F430 Scud, there is no way a paddle shifted auto will keep up with a manual. I have no doubts on a road course, driver for driver, the manual is the way to go.


    Mike

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    Heavychevy1 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: How is the manual mode on the auto?

    Right, I meant to say auto C6 since those seem the be the fastest year in and year out.

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