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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by LV_V Are you serious pal?? Please... We're talking about going from a 19" OEM wheel to a ...
  1. #31
    edsuski is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Quote Originally Posted by LV_V View Post
    Are you serious pal?? Please...

    We're talking about going from a 19" OEM wheel to a 20" high-performance 3-piece here, not 22 or 24" anchors... Don't you have something better to be doing than posting 15 times in a thread about this?
    What don't you understand? This seems fairly obvious. IF you happen to increase the rotational inertia of your wheels by changing them - you WILL decrease the acceleration and increase your stopping distances. It is really that simple.

    If you don't care about an increase of, for example, 0.1 second in 0-60 times as a result of spending $5K+ - then by all means - spend your money blindly. The economy needs the stimulation.

  2. #32
    HPCC is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Quote Originally Posted by edsuski View Post
    If you don't care about an increase of, for example, 0.1 second in 0-60 times as a result of spending $5K+ - then by all means - spend your money blindly. The economy needs the stimulation.
    Okay, I'll bite. Please show me the math. How much of an increase in rotational inertia would it take with a 20" wheel + tire combo to net a 0.1 second increase 0-60 time--and what would be the corresponding increase in weight?

  3. #33
    edsuski is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Quote Originally Posted by HPCC View Post
    Okay, I'll bite. Please show me the math. How much of an increase in rotational inertia would it take with a 20" wheel + tire combo to net a 0.1 second increase 0-60 time--and what would be the corresponding increase in weight?
    HPCC,

    Without the value for the rotational inertia - it is very difficult to show you the exact math, but simply think of the rotational inertia as being the mass being rotated multiplied by the distance from the center of the wheel SQUARED. The squared term is what makes it so significant. Any time you move the rotating mass further from he center - the energy required to accelerate and decelerate it increases exponentially (exponent = 2). Think of a skater who spins with his/her arms extended. What happens when the arms are retracted? The energy has not changed but the angular acceleration certainly has.

    It is relatively easy to measure if you have the wheels, but really difficult to calculate without very sophisticated 3D modeling software and exact mechanical files from the wheel manufacturer. I would like to "encourage" people selling wheels to make this information available. Again, personally - if I am spending $5K plus on my vehicle - I want to make sure it is not decreasing performance. For me, changing parts would be about increasing performance over cosmetics. I realize that that is not the case for all. As for actual real world results - I recall people measuring 0.1 to 0.2 second reductions 0-60 times when going to a plus 2 application. Here is a link to a simular thread:

    http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=160553

    Remember - it isn't just the weight of the wheel - but the distance of the weight from the center of the mass SQUARED.

    If wheel manufacturers would simply list the value for the rotational inertia of a given wheel - we would instantly know if it was a performance improvement or reduction (assuming we knew the value for the stock part). Sorry I can't be more specific - If I had the value - I could show you the math. It would not be too difficult for a wheel manufacturer or seller (such as Tire Rack) to build a program that would provide actual 0-60 times and stopping distances with various wheel/tire packages but I fear that it would drastically impact their wheel sales.

    On a side not - I ran across an all carbon fiber wheel that weighed in at 6 Lbs. A set of four was $12K. I had never seen such a light wheel before. Alas, still no mention of the rotational inertia but I am guessing that it is likely to be much less than a 17 Lb version....

  4. #34
    gotapex is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Quote Originally Posted by edsuski View Post

    On a side not - I ran across an all carbon fiber wheel that weighed in at 6 Lbs. A set of four was $12K. I had never seen such a light wheel before. Alas, still no mention of the rotational inertia but I am guessing that it is likely to be much less than a 17 Lb version....
    The WedsSport wheel in all likelihood will not be produced. That one is not strong enough for normal use, unlike the Dymags.


  5. #35
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    gotapex,
    You seem pretty up on it so I guess you've seen this also?

    http://www.carbonfibergear.com/tag/dymag/


    Jeff-

  6. #36
    edsuski is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Quote Originally Posted by gotapex View Post
    The WedsSport wheel in all likelihood will not be produced. That one is not strong enough for normal use, unlike the Dymags.

    It looked too good to be true. Oh well.

  7. #37
    gotapex is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Ketzer View Post
    gotapex,
    You seem pretty up on it so I guess you've seen this also?

    http://www.carbonfibergear.com/tag/dymag/


    Jeff-
    Yeah, HRE aluminum centers on Dymag carbon fiber hoops. Releasing in Jan 09, with higher than Dymag pricing (eventhough Dymag uses lighter magnesium centers).

    They're good looking wheels. I think that top one would look great on the CTS-V.



    I studied up on these wheels to put on my daily driver (a Noble M400). I really want to get some of those Dymags, but it's hard to justify the price, with the dollar still being so weak. The ~50 lbs worth of unsprung, rotating weight savings would be awesome though, especially on a light car.



    IMHO, the Forgeline products that the OP posted are great wheels. The ZX3R is my favorite in their lineup.



    They're very strong, and surprisingly light at about 21-23 lbs or so (with titanium hardware upgrade option).

  8. #38
    LV_V's Avatar
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Quote Originally Posted by edsuski View Post
    HPCC,

    Without the value for the rotational inertia - it is very difficult to show you the exact math, but simply think of the rotational inertia as being the mass being rotated multiplied by the distance from the center of the wheel SQUARED. The squared term is what makes it so significant. Any time you move the rotating mass further from he center - the energy required to accelerate and decelerate it increases exponentially (exponent = 2). Think of a skater who spins with his/her arms extended. What happens when the arms are retracted? The energy has not changed but the angular acceleration certainly has.

    It is relatively easy to measure if you have the wheels, but really difficult to calculate without very sophisticated 3D modeling software and exact mechanical files from the wheel manufacturer. I would like to "encourage" people selling wheels to make this information available. Again, personally - if I am spending $5K plus on my vehicle - I want to make sure it is not decreasing performance. For me, changing parts would be about increasing performance over cosmetics. I realize that that is not the case for all. As for actual real world results - I recall people measuring 0.1 to 0.2 second reductions 0-60 times when going to a plus 2 application. Here is a link to a simular thread:

    http://honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=160553

    Remember - it isn't just the weight of the wheel - but the distance of the weight from the center of the mass SQUARED.

    If wheel manufacturers would simply list the value for the rotational inertia of a given wheel - we would instantly know if it was a performance improvement or reduction (assuming we knew the value for the stock part). Sorry I can't be more specific - If I had the value - I could show you the math. It would not be too difficult for a wheel manufacturer or seller (such as Tire Rack) to build a program that would provide actual 0-60 times and stopping distances with various wheel/tire packages but I fear that it would drastically impact their wheel sales.

    On a side not - I ran across an all carbon fiber wheel that weighed in at 6 Lbs. A set of four was $12K. I had never seen such a light wheel before. Alas, still no mention of the rotational inertia but I am guessing that it is likely to be much less than a 17 Lb version....
    Alright, aside from the mystical land of $10,000 carbon fiber wheelsets, you've yet to provide any proof that, for example, a 20" Forgeline wheel is:

    1. Heavier than the 19" OEM wheel
    2. Has a higher rotational interia
    3. Anything at all, besides an age old argument for not replacing the wheels

  9. #39
    edsuski is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Quote Originally Posted by LV_V View Post
    Alright, aside from the mystical land of $10,000 carbon fiber wheelsets, you've yet to provide any proof that, for example, a 20" Forgeline wheel is:

    1. Heavier than the 19" OEM wheel
    2. Has a higher rotational interia
    3. Anything at all, besides an age old argument for not replacing the wheels
    I have said nothing about any specific wheel. I am all for replacing wheels if it will increase performance. Unfortunately it is not as simple as saying one wheel weighs less than the other. Again I = mR^2. The R^2 term could result in a lighter wheel with a larger diameter actually having a higher rotational inertia and thus reducing performance.

    So we are back to the beginning of my quest - to encourage people who sell (D3 in this case) or manufacture wheels to please list the rotational inertia of the wheel so we can easily compare them.

  10. #40
    Dr. Design is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Hello,
    Please note that the request has gone into the engineers for the information you seek. I donít want you to think we have forgotten about your info request.

    As for the wheels, we do offer a great variety. One of the reasons we work so closely with Forgeline is they have a great reputation on the racetrack. A lot of people donít know that we also offer the HRE lineup, but by comparison the Forgelines are much more affordable without a drop off in quality or engineering. They have an established & successful racing program with Banner Engineering's Racing Team. The technology that is developed in motorsports is carried over to their wheel program. That is why we offer Forgeline wheels and consider them great quality wheels by comparison to some of the other 3-piece forged wheel offerings currently on the market.

    The Dynamag wheels are great. But letís face it, not too many people are going to be putting $10-15K wheels on their cars unless they have a good reason to. If you are looking for something that is performance oriented that still has style and class (something that you would expect in a Cadillac) then these wheels, in our opinion, are the best choice. Compare them to your Giovanni, Asanti, etc... wheels. These wheels donít stack up to the Forgeline wheels. Nothing wrong with those wheel companies, but on a performance based vehicle like the 09 CTSV, you want something that can hold its own if you ever decide to track the car!

    Please let us know if you have any questions.

    Thank you,

    Dr. Design
    D3 Cadillac





    Quote Originally Posted by edsuski View Post
    I have said nothing about any specific wheel. I am all for replacing wheels if it will increase performance. Unfortunately it is not as simple as saying one wheel weighs less than the other. Again I = mR^2. The R^2 term could result in a lighter wheel with a larger diameter actually having a higher rotational inertia and thus reducing performance.

    So we are back to the beginning of my quest - to encourage people who sell (D3 in this case) or manufacture wheels to please list the rotational inertia of the wheel so we can easily compare them.

  11. #41
    atdeneve is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Quote Originally Posted by gotapex View Post
    IMHO, the Forgeline products that the OP posted are great wheels. The ZX3R is my favorite in their lineup.



    They're very strong, and surprisingly light at about 21-23 lbs or so (with titanium hardware upgrade option).
    Those wheels are yummy.

    Do you guys offer those for either the V1 or the V2?

  12. #42
    Dr. Design is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Hello,
    Yes they are great looking wheels. Those particular wheels are designed for the track and we would have to machine up a different center cap rather than provide the traditional cap. They are available for the V1 & V2 fitments. We have some brand new in the box 18" race wheels for the V1 still for sale....

    Let us know if there are any questions. Again we have already verified fitment for the 09 CTSV and can build wheels now.

    Thank you,

    Dr. Design
    D3 Cadillac

    Quote Originally Posted by atdeneve View Post
    Those wheels are yummy.

    Do you guys offer those for either the V1 or the V2?

  13. #43
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Design View Post
    We have some brand new in the box 18" race wheels for the V1 still for sale....
    Please explain...

  14. #44
    Dr. Design is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Well they are basically that exact same wheel. I have attached an image.



    Long story = short, a customer ordered them for his V1 and had to cancel the order due to an illness. Wheels were completed and they are available for sale. MSRP is $995/per and they are staggered fitment, 18x8.5 and 18x9.5. They are being offered at $800/per.

    For the V2 this size will not fit or clear the larger calipers. However we can offer this wheel in a larger diameter 19" for those that are looking for a dedicated lightweight track wheel. Dont forget we can also run the light weight titanium fasteners...

    Thanks,

    Dr. Design
    D3 Cadillac


    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    Please explain...

  15. #45
    thebigjimsho's Avatar
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    Re: 2009 CTS-V D3 Wheel Options

    Maybe someday I'll bite on those. Just not today...

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