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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Stick or Auto in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by CSX Most C5 and C6 Corvette owners I've spoken too also say that auto 'Vettes put down ...
  1. #91
    CadV is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    Quote Originally Posted by CSX View Post
    Most C5 and C6 Corvette owners I've spoken too also say that auto 'Vettes put down quicker times than their manual counterparts as well.
    I remember that talk and ever person I raced with an auto I beat with a manual.

    With the car being the same there is no way an auto will beat a manual if the driver is good.

  2. #92
    gotapex is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    Quote Originally Posted by CadV View Post
    I remember that talk and ever person I raced with an auto I beat with a manual.

    With the car being the same there is no way an auto will beat a manual if the driver is good.
    It's possible with a turbocharged vehicle. There's no boost loss between gears with the automatic, and you can also brake launch to build boost from launch. That's why the Porsche 997 Turbo is faster in auto than manual.

  3. #93
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    Quote Originally Posted by CadV View Post
    I remember that talk and ever person I raced with an auto I beat with a manual.

    With the car being the same there is no way an auto will beat a manual if the driver is good.
    Hey Mr. Hypothetical, when are automatic and manual versions EVER equal??

  4. #94
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    Here's some more fuel for the fire:

    Most of the magazines have a rule in their testing procedure that requires them to test manual transmission cars by lifting off the gas, pressing the clutch, then reapplying the gas. I assume this rule is to prevent testers from achieving unrealistic times by "speed shifting", which would not be representative of real world acceleration. I always assumed that cars like the ZR-1, Cobalt SS and CTS-V would be tested using the "No-Lift Shift" feature, since GM designed this feature for use and would not be considered "abuse". I saw a writeup in Car & Driver this month on the Cobalt SS however, that specifically mentioned that they did NOT use the No-Lift Shift in the test due to the rules. Here's the quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by Car and Driver Magazine
    Had we used the no-lift shift feature built into the Cobalt SS, it would have been quicker than the Mazda through the quarter-mile, but our test procedure requires using the clutch pedal and lifting off the throttle to shift.
    So the question now becomes "Are the 0-60 times for the 6MT in the magazines using the No-Lift Shift or not?"
    Tony Pagano
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    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

  5. #95
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    Re: Stick or Auto


  6. #96
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    Tony Pagano
    Sales Manager
    Plaza Cadillac
    Leesburg, FL
    (352)787-1323

    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

  7. #97
    b4z
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    That's just dumb. I understand using the clutch and lifting because that is the intended design of most manual transmissions and will lead to longevity.
    But when a company includes a feature specifically designed to not lift, why wouldn't you use it.
    Car and Driver's decision is just dumb.

    Maybe they should test all automatic transmission cars by lifting before each gear change? LOL.

  8. #98
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    On one hand I see C&D's point- they're trying to compare the strength of the engine and drivetrain on equal footing by not using the NLS, but on the other hand I agree with you and think it's dumb. The feature was built into the car for the purpose of improving acceleration, so not using it is like taking the belt off the ZR-1's Supercharger to make it "fair" against the Ferrari.

    Motor Trend is the only one that mentions the NLS in their testing, and posted a 4.1 0-60 for both transmissions. Looks like when it's all said and done, both are equal and it comes down to driver skill.
    Tony Pagano
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    Plaza Cadillac
    Leesburg, FL
    (352)787-1323

    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

  9. #99
    MWM
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    If I were leaning Auto, I'd prolly pick up a CLK63 Black Series. It's a better car. What makes the V cool is that you can get a stick (and it's not detrimental to the overall design, like the stick on the E60 M5 was).

  10. #100
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    Hey Mr. Hypothetical, when are automatic and manual versions EVER equal??
    I said with the car being the same as in same CAR.

    But you are right auto and manuals are not equal hahaha

  11. #101
    Luna. is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Tony View Post
    Here's some more fuel for the fire:

    Most of the magazines have a rule in their testing procedure that requires them to test manual transmission cars by lifting off the gas, pressing the clutch, then reapplying the gas. I assume this rule is to prevent testers from achieving unrealistic times by "speed shifting", which would not be representative of real world acceleration. I always assumed that cars like the ZR-1, Cobalt SS and CTS-V would be tested using the "No-Lift Shift" feature, since GM designed this feature for use and would not be considered "abuse". I saw a writeup in Car & Driver this month on the Cobalt SS however, that specifically mentioned that they did NOT use the No-Lift Shift in the test due to the rules. Here's the quote:



    So the question now becomes "Are the 0-60 times for the 6MT in the magazines using the No-Lift Shift or not?"
    LOL Tony...you are so very evil...

  12. #102
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    Quote Originally Posted by CadV View Post
    I said with the car being the same as in same CAR.

    But you are right auto and manuals are not equal hahaha
    Do manual and auto versions ever have the same curb weight, gear ratios, etc...???

  13. #103
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    Let's not forget that the tires on the auto and manual cars that they tested might have different level of wear. Though in acceleration test it is probably less of an issue.

    At the end, performance wise they are very close.

  14. #104
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    The Auto and Manual have different rear gears also.

    The Auto is 3.23 to 1. The Manual is 3.73 to 1. Using the proper gear ratios for each tranny and rear tire size (285/35-19) provides the following numbers:

    Automatic: 2000 RPM in sixth = 71.2 MPH
    2250 RPM in sixth = 80.2
    2500 RPM in sixth = 89.1



    Manual: 2000 RPM in sixth = 65.6 MPH
    2250 RPM in sixth = 73.8
    2500 RPM in sixth = 82.0

  15. #105
    HPCC is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Stick or Auto

    ^ Hmmm...the numbers indicate the manual has more of an overall mechanical advantage gear ratio-wise, yet the auto maintains parity to a slight acceleration advantage. Could the auto's torque converter be a factor?

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