Talk me in off the ledge ....
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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Talk me in off the ledge .... in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Okay - I'm an '06 V owner. Had it since new and have loved it. Car before was a 530i ...
  1. #1
    bsteven43 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Talk me in off the ledge ....

    Okay - I'm an '06 V owner. Had it since new and have loved it. Car before was a 530i which I also loved but wanted more performance. At the time, the M5 was my ultimate machine. Came across the CTS-V and thought, wow this is a great car - a "poor man's" M5 if you will.

    Fast forward to today. Like everyone else, I was blown away at the news of the V2. The reviews have been nothing short of spectacular. What a car. I've got one on order right now with a production date of late October but I've got to say, I'm getting cold feet. Mine was ordered fully loaded which looks now like it's going to be $70K plus or minus with the gas guzzler charge. I have to admit as excited as I was to see it starting under $60K, I'm disappointed that fully loaded it is $70K. Is it still a performance bargain relative to a comparable new M5? Yes. No doubt. But truthfully, I've got nothing against something close to new. I've been watching '08 M5s on EBay and they are not selling in the $70Ks. In fact, there's a beauty on there right now - '08 with 9,600 miles with buy-it-now of $69K and change. There almost new E63 AMGs to be had for about $70K too - although I'm not a MB guy.

    So, maybe a little pre-buyers remorse I don't know. In my mind, the M5 has always been a special car. My V has been great, but not special. Will the V2 be truly special? Cadillac has done it's job putting a great product out there ... no doubt ... but now that I've reconciled myself to spending $70K on a car, there's a lot to chose from.

    I know this is heresy but anyone else second guessing?

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  3. #2
    Cadillac Tony's Avatar
    Cadillac Tony is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    Value is in the eye of the beholder. Part of the appeal of the CTS-V to some people is the fact that it'll get a lot of looks because it's something new (as opposed to the "same old" M5 that's been running around for a few years now), it's American designed and built, and that it's $25,000 less than the comparably equipped and slightly slower M5 (new to new- once you start comparing new and used, the rules all go out the window). Some people also don't like buying a used performance car, since they're normally driven pretty damn hard by their owners.

    If the uniqueness and "new-ness" of the CTS-Vs styling, as well as the American heritage, the new car smell, the better performance and knowing every mile was put on the car by you appeals to you, then get the V. If you don't mind driving a car that isn't going to get as many looks and might have been driven hard by the first owner, but is still a nice machine with 95% of the performance, then get the M5.
    Tony Pagano
    Sales Manager
    Plaza Cadillac
    Leesburg, FL
    (352)787-1323

    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

  4. #3
    caddiedrummer is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    I have a fully loaded 06 M5 that had an MSRP of $98,000 that I am trading on the V. I have loved it but I tend to buy American and like new stuff. So I would suggest you buy a Caddy from Tony OR buy my M5. ($55,000--19,000 miles)

  5. #4
    Seattle CTS-V's Avatar
    Seattle CTS-V is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    Not sure if you've ever driven a new M5/M6 but they aren't that special. I took the ///M school in SC and got to drive them back to back and they are great cars but nothing to really make me want to spend that kind of dough. When I got into my '05 CTSV I thought the steering was much better and I really enjoyed having a clutch on the floor to complete that driving experience. The interiors are well put together but pretty lame overall. I can't put my finger on it but they just don't seem up to standards in that price range (just like my '05 CTSV). I just sat in a new M3 yesterday and the interior was so boring and not luxurious at all for $66k. What's with the fake "carbon fiber leather" option in those things anyway?

  6. #5
    caddiedrummer is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    Quote Originally Posted by Seattle CTS-V View Post
    Not sure if you've ever driven a new M5/M6 but they aren't that special. I took the ///M school in SC and got to drive them back to back and they are great cars but nothing to really make me want to spend that kind of dough. When I got into my '05 CTSV I thought the steering was much better and I really enjoyed having a clutch on the floor to complete that driving experience. The interiors are well put together but pretty lame overall. I can't put my finger on it but they just don't seem up to standards in that price range (just like my '05 CTSV). I just sat in a new M3 yesterday and the interior was so boring and not luxurious at all for $66k. What's with the fake "carbon fiber leather" option in those things anyway?
    Wow. I am a caddy man but respectfully disagree. I have driven my M5 and my friend's 05 V at the track and the M cleans the 05 V 's clock in all respects. (also check all the published stats on each) I have had 4 Vipers (2 now) and the M5 is the closet i have driven in a sedan to the Viper and Z06. I am thinking/hoping the new V will be closer and better than my M5.

  7. #6
    RightTurn's Avatar
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    Buy what YOU want. $70k is a lot of money.

  8. #7
    T3323 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    A reasonable question to ask. And throw in the premium you (and I) are in effect paying by buying in the first couple of months - in this economic climate, they're almost certain to be discounted by thousands of dollars by 2nd Q '09. How bad do we want to be first?

  9. #8
    MacOSR is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    You should also factor in that you can get close to $9,000 off a brand new 2009 M5 if you work the dealer. That puts the difference between the CTS-V and the M5 very close. More like around $7k.

    I would recommend driving a new CTS-V before making a decision. I had a V1 CTS-V as my winter car until a year ago and it was a good car for what it is but it falls far short of the M5 in all regards. However, the V2 is a much better car then the V1 CTS-V...hopefully the build quality is much better and hopefully GM will stand behind their product better then what my experience was.

    Bottom line, don't let anyone tell you what to buy. Drive both and get what you want ;-)

  10. #9
    Pounder is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    Or wait for the new M5!
    Cause I agree that the CTS-V is great now, but the new M5 will be better.
    Choices, choices!

  11. #10
    JEM
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    Personal opinions, from someone who's got two E39 BMWs (a '98 540i automatic and an '00 M5, both owned since new, both Euro Delivery):

    The first-gen CTS-V couldn't quite pry me out of my M5, the steering and brakes and stability control were better but the seats were poor, the control weighting and balance wasn't as consistent as the M5, material quality overall wasn't up to snuff. Still, for the money (especially lightly used) it was a bargain and I convinced at least two other people to buy 'em.

    The current E60 M5 doesn't do anything for me. The SMG transmission is offputting, the engine lacks grunt, the interior layout and design sucks. The steering is a bit better than the earlier car.

    I'm looking forward to the new CTS-V, from my limited experiences with a current CTS it looks like they've fixed most of the material-quality issues. Outward visibility (a weakness of the previous V) doesn't seem to have improved, but I'm confident the powertrain will knock my socks off. And fully loaded it's $5K less than I paid for my M5 (at MSRP) back in 12/99.

    But if an E63 wagon drifts into my sights at a really gorgeous price in the meantime, I might not be able to resist.

  12. #11
    MacOSR is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    Quote Originally Posted by JEM View Post
    The current E60 M5 doesn't do anything for me. The SMG transmission is offputting, the engine lacks grunt, the interior layout and design sucks. The steering is a bit better than the earlier car.
    I respect your opinion but the current M5 is light years ahead of the previous M5 and is a far better car then the V1 CTS-V. The V2 CTS-V has certainly raised the bar over the V1. To say that the engine lacks grunt is true. It was never designed as a torque monster...but it does pull hard all the way past 200mph. The only cars I have been in that pull as hard or harder past 100mph is the Z06 and other cars that are over $150k. From a dig the M5 is a dog...but its a 4000lb sedan, not a 2 door drag car. Also, I personally LOVE the interior and exterior of the current M5 much better then the e39 interior/exterior. Again, personal opinion.

  13. #12
    JEM
    JEM is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    Quote Originally Posted by MacOSR View Post
    I respect your opinion but the current M5 is light years ahead of the previous M5 and is a far better car then the V1 CTS-V.
    Oh, I'm sure the E60 M5 is faster than the previous-gen CTS-V. There's a fair bit more HP there, more gears, etc. I'm also sure it's faster than the E39 M5, but once again only when you're really beating on it hard.

    Don't get me wrong - on the overall spectrum of goodness the E60 M5 is way up at the important end. But there's a number of things about the E60 5-series in general that I find irritating, and a few characteristics of the M5 that don't suit me.

  14. #13
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    Back to the posters original question, if it were me, I'd wait until the V2 is available for a drive. Drive it against the M5 and see what you like. There will still be "almost new" M5's around if that is the way you decide to go. On the other hand, if you jump on an M5 now and the V2 turns out to be the ride you really want...

  15. #14
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    Quote Originally Posted by commander112 View Post
    Back to the posters original question, if it were me, I'd wait until the V2 is available for a drive. Drive it against the M5 and see what you like. There will still be "almost new" M5's around if that is the way you decide to go. On the other hand, if you jump on an M5 now and the V2 turns out to be the ride you really want...



    With the loaded car being between 65-70K it's hard to understand how this should be a surprise unless they are new to this forum and have only just now started researching the car and it's expected pricing. Many posts have been saying this here for months.

    As far as the new M5 is concerned, just what does one think the price of the redesigned car will be ? Already a current one will take you into the 90s with pricing. Do you think it will be 30K+ better ? If so then wait and go that route. It will be very difficult for me to believe the new one will be that much better of a car when projected HP/performance is roughly equal to the 09V (550hp vs 556hp). There's a lot I can do with an extra 30K.

    Warranty ? Who has a better warranty than the Cadillac Certified Pre-Owned program for those looking to wait a year or so ?

  16. #15
    bsteven43 is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: Talk me in off the ledge ....

    For some reason pulling the trigger on the new V2 has become a much more difficult decision for me than I expected. For me, not just a close to new E60 M5 is now at price parity, but others too ... there is a lot to choose from when you're in the $70K neighborhood. I think as others have said - the combination of the economic environment, crazy stock market etc. is making it REALLY hard for me to pay full MSRP for the V2 right now. When compared against the M5 (which is a largely appropriate comparison), the V2 is a bargain ... but $70K is $70K.

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