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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, velvety in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by Cadillac Tony Completely off topic: This car looks great even sitting in a parking lot. Tony, why ...
  1. #106
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Tony View Post
    Completely off topic:

    This car looks great even sitting in a parking lot.

    Tony, why didn't you tell me my car came in already? I will be up today to pick it up...
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  2. #107
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Patience, grasshopper.

    By the way- make sure you give me a call or email when you make a decision on the option we talked about the other day.
    Tony Pagano
    Sales Manager
    Plaza Cadillac
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    (352)787-1323

    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac
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  3. #108
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Tony, what is that color in the pic?
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  4. #109
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Thunder Gray Chromaflair.
    Tony Pagano
    Sales Manager
    Plaza Cadillac
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    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac
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  5. #110
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Quote Originally Posted by Cadillac Tony View Post
    Patience, grasshopper.

    By the way- make sure you give me a call or email when you make a decision on the option we talked about the other day.
    The panty picker-upper?
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  6. #111
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    A friend of mine here e-mailed me yesterday to say he had just placed his order for his at the dealership.
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  7. #112
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Quote Originally Posted by v84life View Post
    There is nothing wrong will LS engines. They make the Hp and Tq user friendly. They make it light and leading fuel economy for its power is fantastic. I've been fortunate to have owned or have driven everything thats out there. I still LOVE my stock LS-6. Plain and simple there are works of art out there engine wise and by no means is the LSA the best and end all. But I can't f%%^$ wait. This car is going to kick ass. This one is going to take me down modd hell. Already picking out the rims ohhh boy
    LS motors are glorified truck motors, that is why you see them or variants of them in trucks. You also see the Viper motor in the RAM, and the modular 4.6 and 5.4 Mustang motors are really just modified truck engines.

    There is nothing finesse about a pushrod motor. The technology is dated and the motors are less efficient. By efficient I mean power efficiency and not fuel consumption. OHC can be revved significantly higher and peak power output can be acheived at targeted points along the band vs a high displacement pushrod motor that cranks out monster torque whether you want it through turns or not. When you are driving around in a circle like Nascar, it makes no difference so you want the least technology and the fewest moving parts. When you are road racing / carving corners, you want the opposite.

    From the perspective of Europeans, they like to view high end luxary performance sedans as sport minded rather than just muscle minded. At least that is my impression.

    If you have ever driven a late model M3, you know what I mean. The car is simply the funnest car I have ever driven on the street. The M5 is nothing like the M3, but I don't think BMW did a good job with the M5. Whoever said it was right, the V10 is not a great motor and not significantly better than an LS if at all. I was referring more to some of the V8's you see now coming from BMW, Ferrari, and Porsche.
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  8. #113
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    OHC can be revved significantly higher and peak power output can be acheived at targeted points along the band vs a high displacement pushrod motor that cranks out monster torque whether you want it through turns or not.
    I never understood this argument. Revving higher does not equal better- in fact, I'd argue that it shortens the life of the motor and related components (alternator, oil pump, etc) by constantly revving it to 8,000 to see any power.

    As far as "torque whether you want it or not", that's why the throttle has infinite different positions and is not an ON/OFF switch. A good driver with a monster motor can run through a corner at 4,000rpm/20% throttle and be able to explode out of the corner by rolling into the throttle.

    It's easy to feel like Andretti in a car that doesn't punish you for mashing the throttle, but it's also less rewarding for the talented driver.
    Tony Pagano
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    Plaza Cadillac
    Leesburg, FL
    (352)787-1323

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  9. #114
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    LS motors are glorified truck motors, that is why you see them or variants of them in trucks. You also see the Viper motor in the RAM, and the modular 4.6 and 5.4 Mustang motors are really just modified truck engines.

    There is nothing finesse about a pushrod motor. The technology is dated and the motors are less efficient. By efficient I mean power efficiency and not fuel consumption. OHC can be revved significantly higher and peak power output can be acheived at targeted points along the band vs a high displacement pushrod motor that cranks out monster torque whether you want it through turns or not. When you are driving around in a circle like Nascar, it makes no difference so you want the least technology and the fewest moving parts. When you are road racing / carving corners, you want the opposite.

    From the perspective of Europeans, they like to view high end luxary performance sedans as sport minded rather than just muscle minded. At least that is my impression.

    If you have ever driven a late model M3, you know what I mean. The car is simply the funnest car I have ever driven on the street. The M5 is nothing like the M3, but I don't think BMW did a good job with the M5. Whoever said it was right, the V10 is not a great motor and not significantly better than an LS if at all. I was referring more to some of the V8's you see now coming from BMW, Ferrari, and Porsche.













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  10. #115
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    LS motors are glorified truck motors, that is why you see them or variants of them in trucks. You also see the Viper motor in the RAM, and the modular 4.6 and 5.4 Mustang motors are really just modified truck engines.

    There is nothing finesse about a pushrod motor. The technology is dated and the motors are less efficient. By efficient I mean power efficiency and not fuel consumption. OHC can be revved significantly higher and peak power output can be acheived at targeted points along the band vs a high displacement pushrod motor that cranks out monster torque whether you want it through turns or not. When you are driving around in a circle like Nascar, it makes no difference so you want the least technology and the fewest moving parts. When you are road racing / carving corners, you want the opposite.

    From the perspective of Europeans, they like to view high end luxary performance sedans as sport minded rather than just muscle minded. At least that is my impression.

    If you have ever driven a late model M3, you know what I mean. The car is simply the funnest car I have ever driven on the street. The M5 is nothing like the M3, but I don't think BMW did a good job with the M5. Whoever said it was right, the V10 is not a great motor and not significantly better than an LS if at all. I was referring more to some of the V8's you see now coming from BMW, Ferrari, and Porsche.
    First off, you've got it backwards. LS and Viper motors were not designed with truck use in mind. So using it as a "truck motor" argument is weak. If you want to make that asinine comment, then DOHC are glorified truck motors as well. See Nissan Titan and Toyota Tundra.

    As far as road racing, you have no clue. What matters more than high revving is a flat torque curve. Ask any road racer and the flexibility and revvability of the LS6 or LS2 V engine is a huge time saver. Nothing like taking Shenandoah in the V and only shifting twice, staying in 3rd gear all the way around the track. It's all about useable power. As for efficiency, I guess a DOHC engine may be efficient at low rpms, but it doesn't make power like pushrods, either.

    As for Germans and not being muscle minded, check the hp and tq numbers and compare the E39 M5 and 1st gen CTS-V...

    As for someone with extensive use of both types of engines, I thoroughly enoyed each. I'm not so ignorant to declare one superior to the other...
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  11. #116
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    First off, you've got it backwards. LS and Viper motors were not designed with truck use in mind. So using it as a "truck motor" argument is weak. If you want to make that asinine comment, then DOHC are glorified truck motors as well. See Nissan Titan and Toyota Tundra.

    As far as road racing, you have no clue. What matters more than high revving is a flat torque curve. Ask any road racer and the flexibility and revvability of the LS6 or LS2 V engine is a huge time saver. Nothing like taking Shenandoah in the V and only shifting twice, staying in 3rd gear all the way around the track. It's all about useable power. As for efficiency, I guess a DOHC engine may be efficient at low rpms, but it doesn't make power like pushrods, either.

    As for Germans and not being muscle minded, check the hp and tq numbers and compare the E39 M5 and 1st gen CTS-V...

    As for someone with extensive use of both types of engines, I thoroughly enoyed each. I'm not so ignorant to declare one superior to the other...
    Thanks Jim, that's what I was basically saying.... There is nothing wrong with LS based engines. They do there job well, plain and simple.
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  12. #117
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    First off, you've got it backwards. LS and Viper motors were not designed with truck use in mind. So using it as a "truck motor" argument is weak. If you want to make that asinine comment, then DOHC are glorified truck motors as well. See Nissan Titan and Toyota Tundra.

    As far as road racing, you have no clue. What matters more than high revving is a flat torque curve. Ask any road racer and the flexibility and revvability of the LS6 or LS2 V engine is a huge time saver. Nothing like taking Shenandoah in the V and only shifting twice, staying in 3rd gear all the way around the track. It's all about useable power. As for efficiency, I guess a DOHC engine may be efficient at low rpms, but it doesn't make power like pushrods, either.

    As for Germans and not being muscle minded, check the hp and tq numbers and compare the E39 M5 and 1st gen CTS-V...

    As for someone with extensive use of both types of engines, I thoroughly enoyed each. I'm not so ignorant to declare one superior to the other...

    Thanks for the implication.

    To get a better understanding on why BMW has eaten Caddilac's lunch over the past few decades, you may want to rethink who is ignorant here. You can aruge all you want that a technologically superior motor is not better, but it sounds more like a patriotic Big 3 supporter talking than an objective enthusiast. I only buy American but try to keep the blinders off.

    There is simply no argument about which motor is superior. You can argue which car is superior, but not the motor. The pushrod motor can make great power but will lose every time to an equally displaced DOHC motor. The same power output coming from an OHC motor gives you more options across the board, not less.

    As far as revving goes, I didn't think it would be argued that having the ability to turn a motor faster for optimal performance was a bad thing?? BMW would not warranty an 8000+ rpm motor if it wasn't reliable. They would be out of business and clearly arent.

    Unfortunately GM and Chrysler shortcut performance by sticking large displacement engines in small cars because they are...cheaper. That is the real reason, it certainly is not because they are better. Heavier motors in turn require a heavier chassis and drivetrain, which turns many muscle cars into fast pigs.

    Was anyone else around when GM came out with the LT5, its greatest motor ever?

    http://www.zr1netregistry.com/ZR1_about.htm

    They proved that they can compete with the best. But I call a spade a spade. BMW is now building better motors accross the board because they can price thier cars and move enough volume to cover the R&D.
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  13. #118
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    Thanks for the implication.

    To get a better understanding on why BMW has eaten Caddilac's lunch over the past few decades, you may want to rethink who is ignorant here. You can aruge all you want that a technologically superior motor is not better, but it sounds more like a patriotic Big 3 supporter talking than an objective enthusiast. I only buy American but try to keep the blinders off.
    Right, you're talking to someone who is an avid BMW enthusiast and have been since I can remember. I remember when owning a BMW was rare as my parents still have their '72 2002. They used to always flash other owners as they drove by. Of course, this was in the 70s...

    Growing up, I always wanted an M5. I have often called my CTS-V my bargain M5. I had no allegiance to Cadillac or the LS6 motor until I bought my V in '04. And until I did, I was an SHO owner, a car with one of the most technologically advanced engine of its time, built by Yamaha.

    So your assessment of me is very ignorant.
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  14. #119
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    There is simply no argument about which motor is superior. You can argue which car is superior, but not the motor. The pushrod motor can make great power but will lose every time to an equally displaced DOHC motor. The same power output coming from an OHC motor gives you more options across the board, not less.
    Again, your obsession with superiority is stupid. Sure, the DOHC makes more hp up high. But a pushrod motor makes more torque. And it makes it down low and up high in today's engine. And if the torque curve is flat and doesn't drop off before redline, then it doesn't need to rev to 8000 rpm.

    Again, as a former SHO owner and a DOHC fan, I like revving a motor into the stratosphere. But I know that I don't need to to be fast. Neither is superior.
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  15. #120
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    Re: Here's how this works-tell me if 09 V any different

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    As far as revving goes, I didn't think it would be argued that having the ability to turn a motor faster for optimal performance was a bad thing?? BMW would not warranty an 8000+ rpm motor if it wasn't reliable. They would be out of business and clearly arent.
    I never said it was a bad thing. And I never said it was unreliable. Again, I'm not the closed-minded one who ignorantly declares one as superior when neither clearly is.

    Funny, you still haven't addressed issues YOU brought up earlier that was bogus. Such as low-revving torque monsters are not good road racers. Or that LS and Viper engines and such are truck motors because you can find pushrod engines in trucks when there are plenty of DOHC engines powering trucks as well.

    As far as pushrods being dated, DOHC is pretty old technology as well. And neither has knocked each other. You can blab all you want about cost to build and such. But pushrods make power efficiently and with good fuel economy. Seems like you'll never accept that fact with your own bias going on...
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