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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, Nurburgring 7:59.32 in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by P-Funk But it had the added paint weight of "2fitty wuz here" on the side of it. ...
  1. #121
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    Quote Originally Posted by P-Funk View Post
    But it had the added paint weight of "2fitty wuz here" on the side of it.
    LOL!!!
    2fitty will definitely be a Supporting Member and Top Tier Poster on the GTR boards, as will Toysnob. I may join, too, but only to remind them of the V2's grand accomplishments; that will fill the first page.

  2. #122
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32


  3. #123
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthV View Post
    A M5 isn't even a true V competitor so I find it amusing that we're now comparing Vs to Datsuns.
    Exactly! I am waiting to see the RS6 comparison. That is the only 4 door current/coming Gen of competitor for the V. C63 AMg is close, but too small, and has a cheesy interior.

  4. #124
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthV View Post
    A M5 isn't even a true V competitor so I find it amusing that we're now comparing Vs to Datsuns.
    LMAO +1

  5. #125
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthViggen View Post
    I was not questioning the validity of the ring's value as a proving ground. I was commenting on the fact that the manufacturer's time postings have little to no comparative value, once all the variables (weather, driver, season, temp, track condition, tires, wind, etc)have been accounted for. Nissan's own "official" rings times were 10 seconds apart between "official" runs. Nissan engineers have been pounding that thing on the ring for several years now, and they still had a 10 second disparity.




    And I think you seriously need to give your head a shake if you think the 2 primary factors that determines a model's competition are speed and price. Is a CL65 AMG competition for a Ferrari 430? They are about the same price, both fast, and hell they even have the same number of doors! Must be direct competition worthy of endless comparison and speculation by Grand Turismo obsessed internet fanboys(Secretly I am a GT5 obsessed fan-man), but hide it well). This comment alone tells me you are probably not older 25. Find me one auto publication, anywhere, that has seriously compared a coupe vs a sedan, except to prove the sedan was exceptional performance, not function. Comparison by it's nature is function of it's intended purpose, and in this case these two cars purposes, or reason for being if you will, are entirely different.



    Are you serious? My point here is that the PURPOSE of of the GTR is a Track/street fighter, where as that is certainly NOT the CTS-V's purpose.


    Again, your seriousnous is being called into question. The inference here was to the GTR having superior launching capabilities due to the crazy ass AWD technology. If the v2 doesn't run at least 5 seconds faster from 60-160 I will eat my words. By the way, lots of people run from rolls. I'd also like to know how many easter egg 3.3 second 0-60 launches the clutch(s) will take in a GTR before it's toast. In a 430 ferrari it is about 7 -10.


    Point here being that the V2 has a very high end interior, FINALLY befitting it's competition, being of course other luxury sedans. See you undestand purpose of competition here!


    I am talking the price one would pay to purchase either or at a dealer if both were available today. If the basis of your valuation is resale, then wouldn't the depreciation of a GM, still continue to make it cheaper on the secondary market? I am not talking about it's investment returns or imparted value as both would be depreciating assets.


    Well to that all I can say is I hope so. Couple of things to remember, GM put alot of faith in the Gen 2 CTS to finally be a world competing product. They also designed it with the V2 from the drawing table, rather than an after thought like the V1. They will have been very fool hardy to not have corrected the numberone complaint of the current V owning Demo.


    Women who screw cars have bigger problems that what type they screw. I jest. Note I said "quality woman", meaning not someone who will take a boy racer, nissan driving man seriously. 99.99% of women will have no way of seperating the term "nissan", from "altima" or "sentra" in their heads. Probably because quality women are not surfing web forums looking for the newest bench stat to argue about. Not Saying they will screw a guy because he is driving a Cadillac, but it certainly won't make her think housewife grocery getter.


    My whole point is that both cars are e'ffing fantastic! Seriously the tops of their individual games, and classes. I actually have huge desire to own one of these 2( and possibly 2-3 other cars). I will have to make my decision in the next 12 monthes or so when I decide it's time for a new ride. The great thing about these ring stat's being published, is once I decide on the main PURPOSE of my new car, it helps me know what potentially is the best performing one. Then like anyone serious about owning a car, I will find the nearest one, drive it, fall in love with it, and when the bank tells me they will loan me the money, I will buy it. That's something you can't do on the internet!
    First, even with the 10 sec disparity, the GTR beats the higher HP and MUCH lighter Z06. I say theis and I am an 08 Z06 owner.

    second, when buying a perfomance vehicle performance and cost are the two top factors. Seating, like you mention may be #3. The V seats 5 and the GTR seats 4. No it will not be shopped closely as a Vette and a GTR, but when it will compare enough that it will take away V2 sales and it does not take that many steals to hurt a niche vehicle like the V.

    third. Why are you buying a V over the regular CTS if you are not looking for a perfomance car or "track" vehicle? The V's suspension is tuned at a race track, and with the numbers it put up it proves it is a track vehicle.

    fourth, the V2 will never reel in the GTR unless we are talking factory speed limiters. The GTR is a mid 11 sec 1/4 mile car and I doubt the V will reel in a half second or more disadvantage in the next 35mph to even tie the GTR let alone destroy it by...HOW MUCH?? 5 SECONDS!!!!???? nooooo way.

    fifth, There is not a GM car that i know of with a " very high end" interior. I also own an 07 Escalade and that interior is the same crappy GM materials, but I knew this when I bought it. I am not an interior stickler and do not need premium cow on my dashboard that I will never touch, but to say that the V has anything special about its interior is also a stretch. There was nothing special about my V1's interios either.

    6th, my point being is you have to compare both cars at msrp because not everyone will pay a mark up, some, all be it rare, will also get a GTR below msrp. Resale value will always be a good test and if history repeats for the millionth time, the caddy will tank like every GM vehicle does, and I think for years to come the GTR will fare much better (of course MHO)

    7th the girl thing is a joke but the GTR will be more recognizable. You can pull up in a V2 and a kid can pull up next to you in a 2001 M3 and the girls will flock to the M3 first. No one knew what my V was when I had it.

    I agree both are great cars and i would love to have either/both. i think you will also cross shop them when you go to buy.

  6. #126
    verbs is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthViggen View Post
    More internet fanboy myth right there. Quote from car and driver:
    OK, so Europe cars will have the limiter, US ones won't....so as I said before, unless the car has a limiter, it's not going to lose to a CTS-V from 10-130mph.


    Quote Originally Posted by StealthViggen View Post
    For the record I put about 3-4 cars on an RS4 from a roll to 120. A car that has 20 more hp and also super amazing AWD! Parasitic losses of AWD will cause a car to lose to a RWD car of equal spec everytime.
    Quit looking at peak hp #s as the end all, there are numerous other factors including gearing, driver ability, bad spark plug, who knows, etc. For the record, what happened in two completely different cars is pretty apples to oranges.

    If you think for one moment that from a 10mph roll a CTS-V and its 500+lb-ft of torque and RWD isn't going to have traction problems, you're nuts. The GT-R will dead hook and the CTS-V will have to feather the throttle....allowing the GT-R to get a big head start. Not to mention the GT-R will not get caught, especially as speeds increase into the 130+mph range, and the GT-R's sleek .27 Drag Coefficient help out.....not to mention GM's cars tend to peter out after 4th gear since 5th gear is historically geared like a 1st overdrive.


    Quote Originally Posted by StealthViggen View Post
    Would you prefer cam, pulley bolt on's and a tune for 650 whp and a couple of grand?
    A couple grand? Cam alone with parts and install is going to be almost a couple grand. The bolt ons/mods you'd need to make 650rwhp would easily be $5,000, between headers/intake/exhaust/tune/pulley/cam etc. I'm also going to tell you there's no way the LSA motor is going to reliably handle 650rwhp with the hyper-pathetic pistons it comes with. You underestimate the cost and the motor's ability to handle this power. The biggest point I was trying to make is that the motor of the GT-R is built to handle more serious power upgrades without having to worry about the motor grenading.


    Quote Originally Posted by StealthViggen View Post
    I was higlighting that those mods exist today, and you would have a bullet proof, proven engine setup anyhow. What mods are available for a GTR?
    You said more readily modded. A complete motor and blower swap doesn't sound to me like it's "readily modded." What mods are available on a GT-R? Boost controller would be an easy one, eventually once the tuning is cracked, and it will be, every car makers' tuning gets cracked eventually, a turbo swap will make huge power.

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthViggen View Post
    Also - Nissan has stated they went out of their way to make the ECU un-hackable to protect the bottom end and driveline.
    Just like Ford said no one would be able to do pulley swaps on their blown Mustangs. It'll get cracked (the GT-R's ECU)


    Quote Originally Posted by StealthViggen View Post
    By the way do you know the auto tranny in the V is rated to 800 lb/ft? If you think the nissan DCT tranny isn't going to puke at hp of that kind you need to put the pipe down.
    If you think the LSA isn't going to puke at that hp level you need to put the pipe down. You also don't know how much hp the DCT is rated at. The DCT in the Bugatti can obviously handle 1001hp without breaking a sweat.


    Quote Originally Posted by StealthViggen View Post
    Really.. based on what? Parts that don't yet exist for a GTR? I mean come on, everybody knows how difficult and expensive LSx motors are to mod!(read- sarcasim)
    Gee, down pipes and boost controllers don't exist for GT-Rs? There are many universal products on the market that can work...



    Quote Originally Posted by StealthViggen View Post
    Maybe, but everything I have stated was based on facts availabe, reasonable deduction, and from research garnered from a potential owner of either car, as opposed to hype and over speculation by people who probably will never own or drive either car.
    In other words you're completely speculating and have no hard evidence for any of your claims.

  7. #127
    The Tony Show's Avatar
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    Rest in Peace, J.D. (aka Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood)

  8. #128
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tony Show View Post
    I like your GIF, better than your avatar and post.
    And please refrain from any non-technical comments in this thread, or else you may go the way of 2fitty.

  9. #129
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32


  10. #130
    JEM
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    Quote Originally Posted by GNSCOTT View Post
    First, even with the 10 sec disparity, the GTR beats the higher HP and MUCH lighter Z06. I say theis and I am an 08 Z06 owner.
    So what tires was the Z06 running during its timed laps?

    Quote Originally Posted by GNSCOTT View Post

    second, when buying a perfomance vehicle performance and cost are the two top factors. Seating, like you mention may be #3. The V seats 5 and the GTR seats 4. No it will not be shopped closely as a Vette and a GTR, but when it will compare enough that it will take away V2 sales and it does not take that many steals to hurt a niche vehicle like the V.
    There's different groups of people who might shop the V. First, there's the ones who just want the next hot toy. Most of those don't need or necessarily want a sedan, they buy on impulse and no matter what they buy they won't keep it long.

    Then there's the folks like me who'd never consider the GT-R purely on the basis of door count. It's a four-seater like a G37 is a four-seater; as far as we real-world types are concerned even the CTS is barely a real-world four seats and we're holding out for a wagon (or buying an E63 wagon instead if GM don't fork over the hauler.)

    And there's a contingent who'll buy the CTS-V because it's Dee-Troit Ahn, and another contingent who'll buy the GT-R because it Fazzt and Furiouz, and those two demographics don't cross over much.

    In the real world, GM has to snag buyers from the Euro sedans and convince them the car isn't a bunch of creaking plastic with peeling paint.

    Quote Originally Posted by GNSCOTT View Post
    third. Why are you buying a V over the regular CTS if you are not looking for a perfomance car or "track" vehicle? The V's suspension is tuned at a race track, and with the numbers it put up it proves it is a track vehicle.
    Because we can. Seriously, nothing of the CTS' mass will ever be an optimum track car. The same is true of the GT-R. Anything that heavy used regularly on track will eat tires, eat brakes, eat suspension parts, and being stuffed full of niceties like cruise-control and subwoofers it'll be pain in the ass to work on. Buy a Radical or something similar and an old Tahoe to tow it with - or if you have to have something streetable a C5 Z06 or an old Mustang and strip everything out of it that doesn't make it go.

    Quote Originally Posted by GNSCOTT View Post
    fifth, There is not a GM car that i know of with a " very high end" interior. I also own an 07 Escalade and that interior is the same crappy GM materials, but I knew this when I bought it. I am not an interior stickler and do not need premium cow on my dashboard that I will never touch, but to say that the V has anything special about its interior is also a stretch. There was nothing special about my V1's interios either.
    The V1's interior convinced a lot of folks to keep their BMWs...

  11. #131
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    Quote Originally Posted by onebadcad View Post
    I like your GIF, better than your avatar and post.
    And please refrain from any non-technical comments in this thread, or else you may go the way of 2fitty.
    :whut:?

    Oh, right- technical. Hmmm.....let's see.......The source of David Copperfield's magic is a tiny die-cast GT-R hidden in his pocket.

    Seriously guys- do one or two of you need to ruin every friggin thread in this forum with the GT-R comparisons?

    We get it.
    You like the GT-R.
    Here's an e-cookie.
    Now go hang out on the GT-R forum, or at least have the class and good manners to start a SINGLE GT-R thread to contain all this nonsense in.
    Rest in Peace, J.D. (aka Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood)

  12. #132
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    Quote Originally Posted by verbs View Post
    Quit looking at peak hp #s as the end all, there are numerous other factors including gearing, driver ability, bad spark plug, who knows, etc. For the record, what happened in two completely different cars is pretty apples to oranges.
    Who is looking at peak hp. First off Sustained torque over the RPM range is what causes acceleration. Torque is a force, HP is a fomula. My point was that AWD cars will lose eveytime to a RWD car from a roll. I also think the analogy of my V being of about equal hp and weight to an RS4, with the RS4 having a technically superior engine and drive train, yet still losing to me from a roll was pretty good support for that.

    If you think for one moment that from a 10mph roll a CTS-V and its 500+lb-ft of torque and RWD isn't going to have traction problems, you're nuts. The GT-R will dead hook and the CTS-V will have to feather the throttle....allowing the GT-R to get a big head start. Not to mention the GT-R will not get caught, especially as speeds increase into the 130+mph range, and the GT-R's sleek .27 Drag Coefficient help out.....not to mention GM's cars tend to peter out after 4th gear since 5th gear is historically geared like a 1st overdrive.
    Well seeing as nobody knows how the new electronic diff or performance traction management for the v2 works yet you may well be right, but seeing as they were designed with the ZR1 having to hook up that beast of an LS9, I am guessing it will be a none issue. I am still betting the that the 60-160 times on the V2 will be shocking

    A couple grand? Cam alone with parts and install is going to be almost a couple grand. The bolt ons/mods you'd need to make 650rwhp would easily be $5,000, between headers/intake/exhaust/tune/pulley/cam etc. I'm also going to tell you there's no way the LSA motor is going to reliably handle 650rwhp with the hyper-pathetic pistons it comes with. You underestimate the cost and the motor's ability to handle this power. The biggest point I was trying to make is that the motor of the GT-R is built to handle more serious power upgrades without having to worry about the motor grenading.
    5 large is a bit of a stretch for those LSx mods pal, but even assuming so, do you really think any mods for the GTR, to bring it to the same level of HP will be under that? I had more than 5 K in mods to bring my TT Z to 400+ whp) For the record I also had a 1970 GTO judge with a 406 Ponch big block, built with Hyper-U's that made 540 ft/lbs and regularly took a 250 shot of nitrous. Nothing wrong with hyper-u's with the right silica compound. Also what exactly are you basing this notion that the VR38 is indestructable? Are you privy to some secret clan of GTR owners who have modded theirs to those levels yet? All the board speculation is that the engine was designed to take up to 600hp(not whp) Show me one 1 GTR making 650whp right now(supposedly Amuse has tuned a GTR to an estimated 600 bhp, but they are having problems with it and are not offering mods to customers yet)? In fact without larger turbos, that motor will probably not make much more than 525 whp, simply based on the volume/cfm of air they can flow. They are sequencial turbos, intended to spool fast and get the air velocity going quickly, not make huge power. I am certain the first turbo upgrades for a GTR will be 7K + just for the snails, especially since the exhaust housing for the IHI turbos is part of the cast exhaust manifold( read-needs new manifolds to work with any other turbo). Let alone the price tuner shops are going to charge to work on one or offer parts. I really think everyone is basing the pontential of GTR on the reputation of godzilla's past. Most people forget that the 1000 whp RB motors probably cost 40K plus to build.

    You said more readily modded. A complete motor and blower swap doesn't sound to me like it's "readily modded." What mods are available on a GT-R? Boost controller would be an easy one, eventually once the tuning is cracked, and it will be, every car makers' tuning gets cracked eventually, a turbo swap will make huge power.
    Yes I said "readily modded" as in there are proven, relatively cheap mods "ready" and waiting right now waiting for the V2. Parts are available from a throttle body all the way to a complete hardcore big cube monster, TODAY. Unlike the minor mods avilable for a GTR right now. What kind of a clown are you that you think you can slap on a boost controller to the GTR and be done with it. "Tuners" like you are why Nissan locked down the ECU in the first place. Again, turbos alone will be 5K plus, nevermind the supporting mods, when and if they are available speculation boy.


    Just like Ford said no one would be able to do pulley swaps on their blown Mustangs. It'll get cracked (the GT-R's ECU)
    I am not saying it won't be cracked( it sort of has been already by a few tuners, IE speed limiter) I am saying Nissan went out of their way to to keep people from doing it for a reason. Whether it's the bottom end or the tranny, they were protecting something.


    If you think the LSA isn't going to puke at that hp level you need to put the pipe down. You also don't know how much hp the DCT is rated at. The DCT in the Bugatti can obviously handle 1001hp without breaking a sweat.
    You are soooo right! And the Veyron only costs 1.7 million dollars and 500 million to develop. That's total support for the 70K GTR taking a gajillion torques thanks to it's new boost controller and downpipe. Then again, this IS the internet and anything is possible


    Gee, down pipes and boost controllers don't exist for GT-Rs? There are many universal products on the market that can work...
    I certainly hope no one lets you near a GTR. Ever.


    In other words you're completely speculating and have no hard evidence for any of your claims.
    Yes sir. I am the new speculation king. Made it all up.

  13. #133
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    In recogniction of breaking the eight minute mark - Cadillac, have a lap dance on us.




    Lap dance.

  14. #134
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    Wow, I missed a lot here in just a couple of days. Kudos to Caddy!

    The bashing gets tiring to read, though. But as long as we're doing it:

    Quote Originally Posted by figgie View Post
    I could care less bout the "GT-r "

    But I am a stickler for semantics.
    Surely you mean "couldn't care less" or "could care more," old chap. Since you're a stickler for semantics and all...

  15. #135
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    Re: Nurburgring 7:59.32

    What forum is this???

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