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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, 2009 Price vs. M3\C63??? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by NormAMG I had to ask for stats, multiple times and even then they are not complete. I ...
  1. #106
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by NormAMG View Post
    I had to ask for stats, multiple times and even then they are not complete.
    I used Google and MBUsa.com to find the stats I posted. You can do the same, and shouldn't need me to do your homework for you.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormAMG
    No stats on the E63 interior as they'd probably match or better V2. He brought it up!
    I explicitly stated that the E-Class was almost identical in size the CTS- that's why I brought it up, genius- to point out that it is the more valid comparison, not the C63.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormAMG
    He is glossing over how competitive the C63 is to V2 and on price it will be $10,000-$15,000 cheaper than V2.
    I haven't glossed over anything- I posted a list of options I copied directly from MB and noted in red which of those optional features was standard on the CTS-V. You wanted facts, and you got 'em- now that I've shown in black & white how many things MB charges extra for you're grasping at straws.

    And please, enlighten me as to how you know what the price of a 2009 CTS-V is going to be. You talk about how much cheaper the Benz is, but really have NO IDEA because there is no pricing on the 2009 CTS-V yet. None. Zip. Nada. I post hard facts from MB's web site, you post hypothetical price comparisons, and you accuse me of misdirection? Please.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormAMG
    Notice how he is just pricing it to the E63 to the gills

    Norm
    Notice I said "I'll even leave things off that the CTS-V doesn't have like Distronic and electric trunk close". Here, I'll post it again:

    Quote Originally Posted by ME
    Leaving off the items Cadillac doesn't offer (like Distronic cruise and electronic trunk closer), I come up with a price of $101,900 for a "not quite fully loaded" E63. Yikes. I'd love to configure one On-Line so I could be exact, but MB's web site won't let you build your own AMG and tells you to contact a dealer- I wonder why?
    Here's a news flash: In order to make the E63 competitive in terms of equipment that comes standard on a CTS-V (like Navigation, Keyless Go, Bi-Xenon headlamps and Limited Slip, you have no choice but to price it to the gills- that's my whole point! Are you even reading this stuff before you reply?

    Tony Pagano
    Sales Manager
    Plaza Cadillac
    Leesburg, FL
    (352)787-1323

    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

  2. #107
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    I had to ask for stats, multiple times and even then they are not complete.

    No stats on the E63 interior as they'd probably match or better V2. He brought it up!

    He is glossing over how competitive the C63 is to V2 and on price it will be $10,000-$15,000 cheaper than V2.

    Notice how he is just pricing it to the E63 to the gills

    Norm
    Dude.

    Read. It's fundamental.

    What is being said here is that once you bring the option list of the C so it directly compares to what comes standard on the V, the C isn't so much of a deal.

    Really, is it that hard to understand.

    No one is slighting the Benz, it is a quality product. Just trying to make a fair comparison.

    And it has already been rather eloquently established that you must have a grudge against your bank account to spend 60k on a C class... but to each his own.

    First all you want is facts, then after they are given you give your opinion like... " MB does not use LSD on any of their AMG until recently. They really don't need it in most circumstances."

    I am quite befuddled as how you cannot grasp to what is being said, but at the same time your ignorance to the discussion has yielded more information via Tony about the V... for that Norm, i guess i have to thank you... but really, thats enough. Thanks.



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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    time to vote somebody off the island?
    Probably should leave the thread open until the numbers are in and some test done. Then the speculation will stop.


    Norm

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by NormAMG View Post
    Tony priced the E to the gills....
    To prove the point that the MB base price gets you a stripper car- yep, I sure did.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormAMG
    ... as if there is no premium on exclusivity that MB owners prefer.
    There it is- finally. You pay extra for a meaningless 3 pointed star. A big, fat, chrome "Look at me, everybody- I overpaid for the 3rd worst rated car in long term reliability in this year's Consumer Reports" badge on your hood.

    It's so hard to get you guys to admit that you gladly overpay for percieved status, but there it is in your own words.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormAMG
    Thanks!! So Tony is wrong is saying body work is an option.
    Nope- check out the optional fender vents, wheels, and more on the SL55 AMG and many others at MB's site.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormAMG
    Maybe one reason MB offers something for their cars as Caddy buyers surely do not. The P30 package adds to the value of the car as not many are made.
    Unlike GM who says you can have any color as long as it's black. Oh, maybe a roof option. Nice performance option and weight savings.

    Norm
    2005, 2006 and 2007 CTS-Vs were all available in 4 colors, with 3 interior choices. That's 12 color combos for the "counting challenged" in the audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski
    Time to vote someone off the island?
    Nah. This would almost be fun if he weren't so maddeningly dense, but throwing him out just makes it look like he's right. I would appreciate if he'd stop with the derogatory comments about Salesmen though and just debate the car, as I don't appreciate my integrity being called into question because of what I do for a living. I'm doing a job just like you do and happen to be damn good at it, so stop lumping me in with some idiot you met at a Kia Dealership 5 years ago.
    Tony Pagano
    Sales Manager
    Plaza Cadillac
    Leesburg, FL
    (352)787-1323

    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Ok, I mis-spoke, the Benz is getting slighted.

    LMAO!

    Anyway, I think the Conti Flying Spur comes better equipped than the V.... Amiright!!!

  6. #111
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    until (all) the numbers are in and some test done. Then the speculation will stop.

    This much I agree with.

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Ask anyone in this market where would they like to bring their car in for service and caddy dealership is not at the top of the list. So along with the buying experience actually spending time in a car that looks close on paper to others might be the selling point. That is where we are going to spend the most of the ownership time. Until you have driven these cars or have familiarity saying one is superior is purely subjective and might not even be close to reality, especially if it is coming from a salesmen. That is why I tried to get some facts as Tony thinks that at no level does a German car compete, that is entiely false! There has got to be some niche but you'll never hear it from him. Some of you guys take that line

    Automotive history will tell you about building as long as their black.

    Your going win new V2 owners over on Cadillac name brand by itself. Got to have a halo car to draw them in. Besides the cars that fair the worst in quality are usually the ones with the latest models. MB has had it's glitches and caddy is just getting out of one. Cadillac's quality is good because they have not introduced a new model with volume since when, 2003 or 2005? they only have 3.5 models to turn over compared to 5 or more for most German makes.


    Tony opened his about German car owners just roll over and take and it simply not the case. Need to really compare standard features like vented seats on the E63 that are not offered on V2. What would it cost to implement vented seat in the V2? Probably thousands if you can find someone to do it.


    Norm

    Quote Originally Posted by HITMONEY View Post
    Dude.

    Read. It's fundamental.

    What is being said here is that once you bring the option list of the C so it directly compares to what comes standard on the V, the C isn't so much of a deal.

    Really, is it that hard to understand.

    No one is slighting the Benz, it is a quality product. Just trying to make a fair comparison.

    And it has already been rather eloquently established that you must have a grudge against your bank account to spend 60k on a C class... but to each his own.

    First all you want is facts, then after they are given you give your opinion like... " MB does not use LSD on any of their AMG until recently. They really don't need it in most circumstances."

    I am quite befuddled as how you cannot grasp to what is being said, but at the same time your ignorance to the discussion has yielded more information via Tony about the V... for that Norm, i guess i have to thank you... but really, thats enough. Thanks.



  8. #113
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    So we have moved on from actually comparing the cars to the dealer experience.

    Thats a whole new subject, and one, I would probably agree with you on.


    And again, I urge you to read what has been written... No where does Tony opine "that at no level does a German car compete".

    I think thats what you are getting out of it somehow, but that is not what is being said.

    Also, don't fool yourself into believing that you alone are the only one with German car experience here.

  9. #114
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    Ask anyone in this market where would they like to bring their car in for service and caddy dealership is not at the top of the list.

    One of my coworkers drivers a MB.





    His dealership experiences locally are usually "no more loaner cars available, sorry" and he's spoken three times with their parts department trying to track down an ECM for his car and they haven't even bothered to call him back with any info.

    As with almost any make of car, Cadillac, MB, BMUU, or whomever, it's more to do with the individual dealership and their service than the brand. Some dealerships are great and others suck.

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    At this price level it plays a significant role but like I said also it is driving car that will seal the deal or not.

    Tony has said nothing positive about other makes and only boasts Cadillac. To make the sale you really need to put yourself in your customer's shoes or you'll never see their shoes, just their soles as they are walking out the door.

    Quote Originally Posted by HITMONEY View Post
    So we have moved on from actually comparing the cars to the dealer experience.

    Thats a whole new subject, and one, I would probably agree with you on.


    And again, I urge you to read what has been written... No where does Tony opine "that at no level does a German car compete".

    I think thats what you are getting out of it somehow, but that is not what is being said.

    Also, don't fool yourself into believing that you alone are the only one with German car experience here.

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    I never said MB was a lousy car- in fact, somewhere in this train wreck I said it was a fine product but overpriced. All I'm doing is providing a counterpoint to your clearly German biased propaganda.

    You say people would rather go to MB for Service, yet Cadillac was the highest rated car company in Businessweek's Customer Service All-Star rankings last year. http://bwnt.businessweek.com/interac...sfaction/index.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormAMG
    ....especially if it is coming from a salesmen.
    *sigh* It's getting old, Norm.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormAMG
    Tony opened his about German car owners just roll over and take and it simply not the case. Need to really compare standard features like vented seats on the E63 that are not offered on V2. What would it cost to implement vented seat in the V2? Probably thousands if you can find someone to do it.
    Are you sure about the 2009 V not having cooled seats? Like, really super sure? I'll give you a hint: It does.

    Also, please notice that I said "Cooled" seats, and not "Ventilated seats" (like MB uses) because it's superior technology. The Cadillac system uses the "Pull" effect to remove hot air from the seat, which creates a cooling effect. MB uses a "Push" type system that blows cabin air over an element and on to the passenger- while it does provide a cooling effect, it is nowhere near as noticeable or effective as the pull technique. Here's a nifty article on the science of cooling seats: http://delphi.com/pdf/techpapers/2007-01-1193.pdf

    I can keep this up all day. If you want to judge Cadillac and Mercedes based on the realities of 1995 then go right ahead and continue- Or, you can broaden your mind a bit and be open to the fact that Cadillac has come a long way in 10 years and the Imports no longer enjoy the technological superiority they once did. Your choice, but one will continue to make you look silly.
    Tony Pagano
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    (352)787-1323

    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

  12. #117
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post

    Tony has said nothing positive about other makes and only boasts Cadillac. To make the sale you really need to put yourself in your customer's shoes or you'll never see their shoes, just their soles as they are walking out the door.
    You're doing all the talk for MB, so I'm just tossing the rebuttals out.
    Tony Pagano
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  13. #118
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    .....
    Tony has said nothing positive about other makes and only boasts Cadillac. To make the sale you really need to put yourself in your customer's shoes or you'll never see their shoes, just their soles as they are walking out the door.
    Helloooooo....

    May I garner your attention to the very top left of your screen.
    This is a Cadillac Forum... Not the place to be for alot of other make praise.

    This isn't about Tony being a car salesman.... but if you want it to be then ok...

    We, or most of us are all adults here with varying car buying experience in our past... some more than others. I probably fall right in the middle of the spectrum with 3 brand new car purchases and more used/certified cars than I can remember off the top of my head.

    That being said, and Tony cover your eyes... I have not once yet delt with a salesman with more knowledge about his product than Tony. He doesn't have to come in here and do forum battle to earn a living.. I'm sure he would make the power bill if he were never to set foot in CF again.

    He doesn't have a bunch of clone clowns coming in and sayiing how great he is to deal with and how great he was after the sale, at least not until this post. He spends the time in here because he is passionate about his product and all you can do is treat him like a stereo typical car lot statue.

    I think he has proven his knowledge of his product and exhibited a passion for it here. Your inuendos as to the contrary, well just make you look foolish and more of a MB fanboy than he is a Cadillac one. from what i can tell he knows more about MB than even you, or at least he will go find out.

    I have not bought a car from him, but I am planning on it, so I can't testify as to that, but so far so good. At least I know he knows his product.

    So can we get beyond this point? We all know Tony is a Cadillac Sales Person.

    Ok Tony, you can uncover your eyes.

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    I instruct performance driving for a handful of clubs and have owned European cars in the past. We don't get any type of Cadillac owners on the except for the occasional CTS-V. So I have many hours over the 15 years in all types of cars. From awd, rwd, to quasi race cars so I have a good feeling about different chasis types and how the manf tuned them. Except for brakes, which are not used in a proper conservative matter, is usually the weakest link after the driver.

    The newly found hp sedans are just amazing and usually way over their drivers ability that is why they are at these schools, not only for fun. I sure hope GM offers a driving academy for it's V2 owners as some us could have used one with V1.

    The most performance enthusiasts are the German makes.

    I can't keep up from my phone browser all day.

    Watch your step next time you make fun of the other ant hill. Might be more going than meets the eye.

    Norm

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post

    Watch your step next time you make fun of the other ant hill. Might be more going than meets the eye.

    Norm
    ^I have no idea what this supposed to mean.

    Not only do I make a living selling Cadillacs, but I personally love them as well (there's two of 'em sitting in my garage). Whether I'm on a Cadillac forum or not, if I see someone posting out of context comparisons or misinformation about my product than I'm going to call them on it, plain and simple. I know I'll never change your mind, but I hope some level headed people considering an Import might read through this thread and perhaps have their mind changed about the perceived superiority of the German marques over Cadillac.

    HitMoney is right that I was making a good living with Cadillac long before I discovered CF, and I was a member here long before I became an advertiser. This forum is a place where I share useful tech tips and info with current owners and occasionally pick up an extra sale, not my main source of income. Hit, I'm looking forward to getting together again when your new V arrives, and hopefully we can have a few more beers than we had time for at the Ft. Lauderdale meet.
    Tony Pagano
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    Plaza Cadillac
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    (352)787-1323

    www.cadillactony.com



    The views and opinions of this poster are solely his own and do not represent those of Plaza Cadillac

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