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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, 2009 Price vs. M3\C63??? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; You can try to compare the M3 and the CTS-V all you want, but most buyers of the V have ...
  1. #31
    GNSCOTT is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    You can try to compare the M3 and the CTS-V all you want, but most buyers of the V have families and you cannot fit 3 adults in the back of an M3 and you cannot fit 2 comfortably. Try fitting 2 car seats in an M3 and they are not in the same territory. Why would you compare it to an M3 and not an M5? With your thinking BMW should not sell any M5's at $90k. If $70k does not seem like a steal for you compared to an M5, the ball capper M3 is for you.

  2. #32
    NormV is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    E90/92 M3 now comes in a four door.


    Norm

    Quote Originally Posted by GNSCOTT View Post
    You can try to compare the M3 and the CTS-V all you want, but most buyers of the V have families and you cannot fit 3 adults in the back of an M3 and you cannot fit 2 comfortably. Try fitting 2 car seats in an M3 and they are not in the same territory. Why would you compare it to an M3 and not an M5? With your thinking BMW should not sell any M5's at $90k. If $70k does not seem like a steal for you compared to an M5, the ball capper M3 is for you.

  3. #33
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    M3 sedan is tool small for me .Its not even a consideration.

  4. #34
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by haveboost View Post
    Having owned a V1 and now an M5 it goes without saying that they're apples and oranges. The V1 was ok. But full of problems, the interior was horrible, and the build quality was terrible.

    Yes the M5 is much more but you get peace of mind. No wheel hop, no radio peeling buttons, no interior creaks and sounds, and it's comfortable. Not to mention all the creature comforts, like bluetooth, Ipod integration, ventilated seats, maintenance included, free oil, etc...

    If you can afford it, it's worth it just for the peace of mind. The V1 spent at least 3 months in the dealer for various problems(twice a/c, 4 rear ends, front shocks, and various interior panels, headlights) in the 2 years I had it. My M5 less than a week, and that's because my son left the trunk opened and it got water and damaged some computers, which BMW replaced at no cost. Also the loaners are always very nice BMW's as opposed to Chevy loaners cadillac was providing.

    I guess what I'm saying is you get what you pay for.

    Having said that, I'm very curious with the new V2. I'm on the list for one. But after what I experienced, I'm going to be very cautious, and take that bad boy for a very serious test drive. Maybe I'll wait to hear from people who bought the car & wait for all the possible issues it may have. You know what they say "get me once shame on you, twice shame on me".
    i was fortunate to have an 05 ctsv, and the only problem i had was the peeling buttons..drove hard and the rear end held up..loved the car, but like you said cant compare it to the m5 because its 30k less....its like comparing the v to a 20k car...you cant...so when my two year lease on the stsv is up this year my options are the following to choose from. 09 ctsv, Nissan Skyline GT-R, 09 zr1(depending on price), hopefully i dont go rice, but you never know...

  5. #35
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    I priced out an M3 sedan similar to the '09 V and came up just north of $66k. I could have added a few more options. The V definitely competes with the M3 on price, but it is going to be a more powerful car, will probably be better equipped for the money and is the size of the M5 to boot.

    I've had a BMW or three in the past and have been relatively pleased with the fit and finish so I would consider one and will probably drive the M3 sedan to see how the latest model fares. I don't really need the extra space that the V gives you, but I still love the naturally aspirated V-8 in the first gen. I'm not sure I'll like the supercharged version in the second gen.

    To make matters worse, Audi has a next gen A4 set to bow which means a new S4 and likely RS4. There are seemingly more and better options hitting the market constantly.

    There's never been a better time to be a car buyer.

  6. #36
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Actually, the M3 sedan is not bad in back. It's not overly spacious, but it's not terribly snug either.

  7. #37
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    I think the Nissan GT-Rs are going to be in "limited" numbers here, with limited Nissan dealerships selling them. If that holds true, then there will almost certainly be dealerships wanting premiums to be able to get one. At a projected cost of 70K + a dealership premium ? It doesn't sound like it's going to be a viable option.

  8. #38
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by GNSCOTT View Post
    You can try to compare the M3 and the CTS-V all you want, but most buyers of the V have families and you cannot fit 3 adults in the back of an M3 and you cannot fit 2 comfortably. Try fitting 2 car seats in an M3 and they are not in the same territory. Why would you compare it to an M3 and not an M5? With your thinking BMW should not sell any M5's at $90k. If $70k does not seem like a steal for you compared to an M5, the ball capper M3 is for you.
    I am not really comparing the CTS to the 3 series/C class/A4, GM is pricing it that way. The CTS is currently (this is a keyword) GMs entry level sport lux car and prices the models to compete with the German entry level sport lux (ones available in the USA) counterparts. The non-V CTS really does not compete with the 5 series/E class/A6. It might be closer in size to those, but must people shop by price point first and then factor in size. GM put it in that price point. Now place a V badge on the side and all the sudden we are going to raise it into another lux level. GMs non-V CTS is priced to compete with entry-level, is there justification to not continue this?

    A fully loaded CTS is around $47,000 w/o AWD. I just do not think adding a bigger engine(with SC and intercooler), brakes, PTM, racing seats, fancy shocks (available on $48,000 Corvette and only cost $1,995) and badges is worth $23,000 more. On that note the M5 is not worth the extra money. I personally would not think the V10 and all its little extras are worth $24,000 more than 550i, but others will.

    If they are wanting to price it higher for exclusitivity, they can. I am not trying to be exclusive, I would like to drive a Great American Luxury Sport Sedan and GM should want us all to do the same. BMW and Merc are going to sell a ton of the M3/C63, they are going to kill the RS4 (however that was coming to end). GM could sell at ton CTS-Vs or it could go the way of the STS-V and XLR-V.

  9. #39
    varrius is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    You guys aren't looking at this properly. You're comparing it to the M3 and C class. Look at it this way. As motortrend said. The 90,000 dollar E63 AMG weighs the same as the CTS-V. However, the CTS-V has 43 more hp and 85 more ft lb of torque. Essentially, you're dominating a 90,000 car for less than 70k.

  10. #40
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by CIWS View Post
    I think the Nissan GT-Rs are going to be in "limited" numbers here, with limited Nissan dealerships selling them. If that holds true, then there will almost certainly be dealerships wanting premiums to be able to get one. At a projected cost of 70K + a dealership premium ? It doesn't sound like it's going to be a viable option.
    Who wants that japanese garbage anyway. The CTS-V is going to be a big red-white-and-blue punch in the face. I doubt the regular trim GT-Rs will even be able to compete. Only the special order 100,000+ model will be a problem.

  11. #41
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by varrius View Post
    Who wants that japanese garbage anyway. The CTS-V is going to be a big red-white-and-blue punch in the face. I doubt the regular trim GT-Rs will even be able to compete. Only the special order 100,000+ model will be a problem.
    Ooooohhh, Blackout is going to get you..

  12. #42
    varrius is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Also, at any rate, you're getting MORE performance from the CTS-V (infact, motortrend says it's the highest performing sedan available) than you would for a 90,000 car, for 20 - 25,000 less. I know these cars aren't cheap. But seriously, for what we GET for that price, it's a STEAL. And I don't know about you guys but when I got into a GMAC dealership I am treated 10 times better than any german dealer and they don't haggle with me.

  13. #43
    GNSCOTT is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    E90/92 M3 now comes in a four door.


    Norm

    Norm, Does it still seat 4? I think the orignal poster is also comparing it to the coupe since the sedan will be at a different price point (cost more than the coupe)

    I am not really comparing the CTS to the 3 series/C class/A4, GM is pricing it that way. The CTS is currently (this is a keyword) GMs entry level sport lux car and prices the models to compete with the German entry level sport lux (ones available in the USA) counterparts. The non-V CTS really does not compete with the 5 series/E class/A6. It might be closer in size to those, but must people shop by price point first and then factor in size. GM put it in that price point. Now place a V badge on the side and all the sudden we are going to raise it into another lux level. GMs non-V CTS is priced to compete with entry-level, is there justification to not continue this?
    Do not compare entry level with the "cheapest Caddy makes" how many entry level cars cost $60-$70k? GM has always marketed the car to be between an M3 and an M5 and they are giving you a car that when optioned out cost about the same as the M3, will probably be less than the M3 sedan, and a hell of a lot cheaper than the M5 and it will out reform both. Also i guess you have not priced out an LS7, an auto tranny and a rear end that can handle 500+ ft lbs in a car that can seat 5 and weigh up to 500 lbs. The CTS may be entry level for a lux sedan, but you can hardly call the new CTS-V entry level, especially when it wipes its azz with the competition.

    A fully loaded CTS is around $47,000 w/o AWD. I just do not think adding a bigger engine(with SC and intercooler), brakes, PTM, racing seats, fancy shocks (available on $48,000 Corvette and only cost $1,995) and badges is worth $23,000 more. On that note the M5 is not worth the extra money. I personally would not think the V10 and all its little extras are worth $24,000 more than 550i, but others will.
    Again, compare apples to apples. Price a similarly equipped M3 Sedan when it comes out and turn that ball cap to the side, and again you are proving my point, how about doing your comparison with the $90k+ M5. The V is closer to an M5 than it is to an M3 coupe or sedan. I also remember buying my 04V when they compared it to the base price of an M3. Tell me, Is leather seating still an option on the M3 like it was in 04? Luxury car w/out leather seats.

    Some of us older family guys have to shop for size first. If I get the V it is because I want the best performing car that can seat 5 people that I can afford. If the M5 was $65k and the V was $90k I would buy the M5 (even though it will be slower) 2 car seats and a 12 year old will not fit in the back of an M3.

  14. #44
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    GNSCOTT,

    Quote Originally Posted by Nivek View Post
    I see Mercedes finally released the US pricing for the C63 today and it comes in at the same as the M3 sedan at $53,800.
    That is my original post, you will notice the word SEDAN in there. Actually the sedan is cheaper than the coupe, $3000 cheaper. I am not sure where you got the opinion I was talking about the coupe.

    With that being said, everyone is free to decide which argument is better and how much the CTS-V should be. If the V comes out loaded between $63,000-$65,000, feel free to pay the dealer $70,000+ since you think it is worth it and a steal at that price. If the V comes out loaded at $70,000-$72,000, I will offer the dealer about $65,000+/-. He might not accept it at first, but something tells me he will eventually.

    On a side note, several people were on the Merc boards were predicting the new C63 was going to be $75,000-$80,000 because of the new engine (shared with the other high $$ AMGs). It came in at $53,800. Have faith.

  15. #45
    luxilon is offline Cadillac Owners Member
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    GNSCOTT,
    Note that the M3 coupe isn't cheaper than the M3 sedan. The MSRP on the M3 sedan is $53800 vs $56500 for the coupe (the sedan doesn't have the carbon fiber roof etc). The M3 is bigger than its previous generation, and yes, leather is still a $950 or $2000 option.

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