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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, 2009 Price vs. M3\C63??? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by NormV Gotcha! LS3 in 08 matches C63 but is $3,000 more expensive than the C63. C6 is ...
  1. #16
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    Gotcha! LS3 in 08 matches C63 but is $3,000 more expensive than the C63. C6 is still slower according to R&T.


    Norm
    How can you say it's 3K more expensive when full pricing with options hasn't been released yet for the C63 ? Every AMG costs at least 5-7K more just to add the "AMG package" on to the car, much less anything else. I think you're a bit premature to be comparing costs until you can get full pricing info on the C63.

    Evidently their stock performance is close enough the driver would probably make the difference. But I'm still kinda curious why you're comparing a sedan to a coupe in the first place.

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Ok, base to base is $4K since the c6 has opt exhaust.

    Why sacrifice in a sports car when you can have more luxurious and two doors. Not any more!


    Norm

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    verbs is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    An 8000+ redline will help do that. If you can produce an effective torque curve all the way to that high redline, that helps. It also keeps 0-60 runs to one shift, from 1-2...
    It's not just that simple, I guarantee you that the M3 is geared to hell in 1st gear to make up for the lack of torque down low....and that will offset somewhat the ability to hold shifts longer from the higher redline...

  4. #19
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by verbs View Post
    It's not just that simple, I guarantee you that the M3 is geared to hell in 1st gear to make up for the lack of torque down low....and that will offset somewhat the ability to hold shifts longer from the higher redline...
    Of course it's not that simple, but it's a factor. As for M3 vs C63, I ask you to look at the acceleration times from 0-150. After the quick jump the C63 musters, their numbers are almost identical well into triple digits...

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    The reason I think the V needs to be priced at the M3 level is because the German M3's have generally superior drivetrain technology. The engines perform better (not just a monster truck engine in a sedan) and the tranny is waaaaay better. At least from what I have driven. The M3 is all around funner to drive and therefore demands a performance premium. The V will be much more agile than before but will get carved up by an M3, which matters a lot to people who don't buy sedans for straight line performance.

    All this said, the V is a bargain to the M5. But, I think M5's are simply a ripoff and are not a great comp if Caddy is looking to increase sales.

  6. #21
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    The reason I think the V needs to be priced at the M3 level is because the German M3's have generally superior drivetrain technology. The engines perform better (not just a monster truck engine in a sedan) and the tranny is waaaaay better. At least from what I have driven. The M3 is all around funner to drive and therefore demands a performance premium. The V will be much more agile than before but will get carved up by an M3, which matters a lot to people who don't buy sedans for straight line performance.

    All this said, the V is a bargain to the M5. But, I think M5's are simply a ripoff and are not a great comp if Caddy is looking to increase sales.

    So you have driven an 09 V..? Cool.


    M3 carves up a v.. ? Thats a strong claim.

    M3 runs a straight 0-100-0 while CTS-V runs the 0-100 through a slalom

    [YOUTUBE]GSWm1RH0NCI[/YOUTUBE]

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Fun to watch but we all "should" realize that a video is NOT a solid way to prove a point like this. Too many ways it can be "fixed" to show the desired outcome.
    That said, I have a hard time believing that an M3 would in any way "carve-up" a V1. I think after experiencing the two drivetrains, the M3 DOES prove to be the more refined of the two but you have to remember that BMW has had a long time to refine it, whereas the CTS-V was just the very first attempt by Cadillac to play in that arena. So far, it looks like GM may have chiseled most if not all the CTS-V's sharp edges, and in so doing, may have molded a car that while having the power of a muscle car, may also have the manners of a refined road car. We'll see in a few months.

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jpjr View Post
    The reason I think the V needs to be priced at the M3 level is because the German M3's have generally superior drivetrain technology. The engines perform better (not just a monster truck engine in a sedan) and the tranny is waaaaay better.
    Does GM still make many of the trannies for BMW? For years Strassberg made them because BMW knows GM has better transmissions.

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    M3 or M5 what are you talking.. i would rather pay a little extra for the M5 instead of the V

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Anybody have an idea as to when we'll see some V2's in the hands of C&D, MT, R&T, etc. so we can see numbers?


    Quote Originally Posted by lordbaby View Post
    ... i would rather pay a little extra for the M5 instead of the V
    A little extra?
    '05 CTS-V, Maggie, Kooks, Hotchkis, Ground Control, Corsa, B&M, DSS/Hendrix, Full 3M Clear Bra, Autovation, V Headrests, CTS Console, STS-V 55w Fogs, Black Vette FRCs, Specter Werkes, Katech LS9 Clutch, SS Brake Lines, Heavymetals U-Turn Fuel Line Eliminator, Momo Combat Evo Shift Knob, Wldwhl Clear Sidemarkers, Linea Corse LC855 Wheels or OEM wheels w/'06-'07 Center Caps, plus a couple more. 472 RWHP/411 RWTQ (Mustang Dyno).

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by HiTechRV View Post
    Does GM still make many of the trannies for BMW? For years Strassberg made them because BMW knows GM has better transmissions.
    HiTechRV, that was quite a long time ago when the 5-series had the 4-speed automatic. GM can't get out of 5-6 speed slush boxes and the Europeans have moved on to 7-speeds.

    Volvo used a beefed up version of the 4t65E about a decade ago too! GM can make transmission that can handle the torque!

    Norm

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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by lordbaby View Post
    M3 or M5 what are you talking.. i would rather pay a little extra for the M5 instead of the V
    Having owned a V1 and now an M5 it goes without saying that they're apples and oranges. The V1 was ok. But full of problems, the interior was horrible, and the build quality was terrible.

    Yes the M5 is much more but you get peace of mind. No wheel hop, no radio peeling buttons, no interior creaks and sounds, and it's comfortable. Not to mention all the creature comforts, like bluetooth, Ipod integration, ventilated seats, maintenance included, free oil, etc...

    If you can afford it, it's worth it just for the peace of mind. The V1 spent at least 3 months in the dealer for various problems(twice a/c, 4 rear ends, front shocks, and various interior panels, headlights) in the 2 years I had it. My M5 less than a week, and that's because my son left the trunk opened and it got water and damaged some computers, which BMW replaced at no cost. Also the loaners are always very nice BMW's as opposed to Chevy loaners cadillac was providing.

    I guess what I'm saying is you get what you pay for.

    Having said that, I'm very curious with the new V2. I'm on the list for one. But after what I experienced, I'm going to be very cautious, and take that bad boy for a very serious test drive. Maybe I'll wait to hear from people who bought the car & wait for all the possible issues it may have. You know what they say "get me once shame on you, twice shame on me".

  13. #28
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by NormV View Post
    Ok, base to base is $4K since the c6 has opt exhaust.

    Why sacrifice in a sports car when you can have more luxurious and two doors. Not any more!


    Norm
    Last week when I was at the performance shop the owner had an 08 vette on the dyno that had only had a mild cam and headers added to the car and it was making 497 rwhp. A pretty impressive number for no more modification than was done to the car. More power than a Z06 for 6K of modification to a base Vette.

  14. #29
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    Quote Originally Posted by CIWS View Post
    Last week when I was at the performance shop the owner had an 08 vette on the dyno that had only had a mild cam and headers added to the car and it was making 497 rwhp. A pretty impressive number for no more modification than was done to the car. More power than a Z06 for 6K of modification to a base Vette.
    The LS3 is very understated by GM. Many C6Z owners are understandably upset, and envious. IIRC, saw a C6 LS3 w/ProCharger (5-6 psi) post 531 RWHP. Also seen a bone stock C6Z dyno at 455RWHP.

  15. #30
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    Re: 2009 Price vs. M3\C63???

    I think LG's 08 LS3 test car with obvious full exhaust, intake and cam was ousting the new Z,


    Norm

    Quote Originally Posted by onebadcad View Post
    The LS3 is very understated by GM. Many C6Z owners are understandably upset, and envious. IIRC, saw a C6 LS3 w/ProCharger (5-6 psi) post 531 RWHP. Also seen a bone stock C6Z dyno at 455RWHP.

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