Cadillac Owners Forum banner
13K views 88 replies 22 participants last post by  jasaero 
#1 ·
Did anyone read the Motor Trend Car of the Year test data? Very interesting what the base CTS is able to do. It posted .89g's in the skidpad, 26.40 figure 8 time, which matched the Audi TT and beat the WRX! The .89g's really impressed me with only 235/50/18's. Imagine what more width and less sidewall will do for this. I know this isn't the same, but this IS pretty telling of what the new V may be capable of doing.
 
#4 ·
The extra weight is going to be heavily offset by 250hp, 10% stiffer suspension, MRC shocks, michelin PS2 rubber, and two much nicer transmissions. Not to mention seats that actually hold you in place during that side loading allowing you to concentrate on the test time maxing more. It will make all those numbers look silly and like childs play basically.
 
#10 ·
Sdd a couple hundred pounds above center of gravity...we'll see as the Gen 1 V was slightly better the Gen 2 base. The v2 will not be the autocross winner in Super Stock. There is no way that that 4200 lbs will be competive in the tight stuff.

The magnetic stuff works wonders on a bumpy track as I have seen in the C5 but it weighs similar to the Z06 with the Z winning. The V2 weighs 400 lbs more than V1. Can't over come physics.
 
#21 ·
Figure-8 results from MT:

MT fig-eight, sec @ avg g
25.6 @ 0.72(V)
26.1 @ 0.68(GTO)
26.3 @ 0.70(SRT-8)


http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0502_trio15_z.jpg


Don't think the mag shocks(MSRC) are going to make up the almost 400 lbs. difference in V1 and V2. There is a marginal difference on the C5 Corvette when using a stiffer Z51 package compared to MSRC. The V1 will still be the auto cross champ.


MotorTrend – “The Suspension Dimension.” (September 2004)

"The performance mode ensures flat cornering no matter what the speed. In a way, the MSR system inspires a bit more confidence when pushing the car hard around the track — it prevents the body from becoming unsettled when the suspension loads and unloads over undulating surfaces.

"The compromise is the slightly slower turn-in. It just doesn't feel as razor sharp as the Z51 when attacking a corner's apex. The real value however in the MR system is that it nearly eliminates the surprise factor out on the open road when encountering a pothole or other unseen road irregularity.”

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/7004/suspensions-of-disbelief.html

"Bottom line: Magnetic Selective Ride Control strikes us as a bargain, and if you don't plan to go racing, or if you're buying the roadster, this is likely the best choice."

MRSC shocks on a C5. Note the extra hardware along with another computer:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum...118248-do-magnetic-ride-shock-units-wear.html

Norm
 
#22 ·
Figure-8 results from MT:

MT fig-eight, sec @ avg g
25.6 @ 0.72(V)
26.1 @ 0.68(GTO)
26.3 @ 0.70(SRT-8)


http://images.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedan/112_0502_trio15_z.jpg


Don't think the mag shocks(MSRC) are going to make up the almost 400 lbs. difference in V1 and V2. There is a marginal difference on the C5 Corvette when using a stiffer Z51 package compared to MSRC. The V1 will still be the auto cross champ.


MotorTrend – “The Suspension Dimension.” (September 2004)

"The performance mode ensures flat cornering no matter what the speed. In a way, the MSR system inspires a bit more confidence when pushing the car hard around the track — it prevents the body from becoming unsettled when the suspension loads and unloads over undulating surfaces.

"The compromise is the slightly slower turn-in. It just doesn't feel as razor sharp as the Z51 when attacking a corner's apex. The real value however in the MR system is that it nearly eliminates the surprise factor out on the open road when encountering a pothole or other unseen road irregularity.”

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/7004/suspensions-of-disbelief.html

"Bottom line: Magnetic Selective Ride Control strikes us as a bargain, and if you don't plan to go racing, or if you're buying the roadster, this is likely the best choice."

MRSC shocks on a C5. Note the extra hardware along with another computer:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forum...118248-do-magnetic-ride-shock-units-wear.html

Norm
 
#24 ·
Boys, the new V (which I'm in love with) is an overweight cow, period. A souped up overweight cow with sticky hooves, magneto-rheological flanks, and cast iron udders. Centripetal force pushes a heavier cow harder than a skinny cow, full stop. Once the car mags get hold of production V's, it should be interesting to see what, and how well, the engineers have done to keep the cow from sliding sideways. I'll especially interested in seeing the difference on a skidpad between "Computer: everything on!" (e.g. 'happy cow') and "Computer: everything off!" (e.g. 'barbeque').

Until then, it's all just pointless Brokeback cowboy yodeling.
 
#25 ·
Interesting to me that the new '08 CTS is only .10 slower in the figure 8 than the SRT-8. Hmmmmmm.
 
#31 ·
CVP, hang a sign on the SRT right now that says "For Sale", then take the next 8 months to decide what color V you'll want :stirpot:
 
#26 ·
I got the March 08 Car And Driver with the CTS-V on the cover with the words..

"CTS-V Cadillac's 550hp M5 Beater"


In the glowing article which is half as much about the outgoing CTS-V, they say and I quote, "Cadillac expects skidpad performance to be a bit north of 0.90g."

That is awesome all things considered.
 
#30 ·
Why all this crap about weight I don't understand..... :cookoo:

You want a track car off the showroom floor, buy a Vette, Viper, Lotus, etc etc..

I am planning on buying this car to go fast and perform while I am listening to my mp3s talking hands free on my cell phone punching in my destination on the NAV while sunning my face through the sunroof and cooling off with the A/C having nice conversation at a reasonable level with my girl sitting next to me... and in the process knowing that not much else is going to fly up the on ramp faster than I.

I'm sure you can take delivery of your CTS-V, rip out all the shat that makes it a Cadillac, soundproofing, radio, nav, headliner,carpet. backseat,.. while you are at it rip out the passenger front seat cause all passengers do is add weight anyway and you will have yourself one fast track car. Not what Cadillac had in mind, but hey.. its your 70k. You are free to throw away the CTS and just keep the V portion. I'll be happily a few 10ths behind you rocking out to Kid Rock. :sneaky:
 
#32 ·
Every time I hear how all this added weight is going to make CTS-V and ZR1s slow and lazy handlers I look back at my May 2007 issue of Road & Track.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=3&article_id=5015

Download the data panel of this 4000 lb mag. shocked car and then tell me the CTS-V and ZR1 are going to be fat slow non handlers.

And please do not be like a friend of mine that said "but its a farrari" because that means nothing.
 
#34 ·
You guys need to study physics and it's impact on vehicle dynamics if you think mag. shocks are going to do what you think. Sadly mistaken IMO, but time will tell I suppose. I have a funny feeling that although the '09 V will out-power the '07, it will NOT be the choice among those looking for a car for a day at the track. The Gen. 1 was as close as Cadillac is going to get to a dual-purpose car. And that's saying a lot IMO. A CADILLAC that is still a hell-raiser at the track. Amazing.
 
#37 ·
It's not just the MRC shocks Katshot. This car has the same wheelbase as the V1, but is a good bit wider in track, that helps the physics. It has bigger wheels and tires which help the physics. Another thing you seem to be loosing some understanding on is that added weight doesn't hurt cornering traction in quite the way you seem to think. The car will stay on the corner because of the static friction capability between the tire and the road. That friction capability actually increases with weight because friction is a product of the weight pushing the tires onto the pavement and the friction coefficient for the particular tire compound with a particular pavement. The new PS2 tires are sticker than those on the OEM V1 and the added weight actually helps so long as it doesn't all end up on only 2 tires. The MRC basically helps ensure the weight is divides as equally as possible between all 4 tires by taking lean out in the corners and helping the V2 corner much flatter than the V1 allow for FAR more overall static friction capability in a corner. Really bigger cars are handicaped far more by longer wheelbases and wider tracks making tighter corners harder to find good fast lines through since the car can nearly not even fit though the corner in the first place. They are also handicapped by normally higher CG's which tend to force too much weight onto the wheels on the outside of the corner, which can be helped with extra width AND MRC.

The weight itself is not what normally handicaps them. Just look at the Veyron! You cannot tell me that car can't handle! It is just as heavy as this new V though. Now it has a much lower CG and wider track, but did post sub 25 sec figure 8 times on MT while weighing about the same as the V2. The V2 will easily take the V1 in about EVERY test and track with it's wider track, similar CG height, bigger brakes, higher power, and MRC. The weight really isn't important so long as the tires and wheels are improved to handle the higher loading and th CG doesn't go higher or track go narrower. The track actually got wider and I really don't think think the CG moved up or down much at all. CG actually might be a bit lower. Only thing that didn't improve is the CG went forward on the car a bit which is really probably worse than the extra weight.
 
#35 ·
Kat how do you explain this thing terrorizing the locals at Nurburgring? I'm a degreed engineer and took a physics class or two, albiet long ago. I liked my '07. I'm going to like the '09/'10 more. On the street or on the track. The '07 was severely hampered by the tiny wheels, even with race tires. It did well for such a heavy car (yes, both are heavy for track cars) but I do not think the '07 will be able to keep up with the '09's times at Nurburgring, much less at the drag strip.
 
#40 ·
Norm, Annie's post in regards to the 599 Fiorano GTB actually kinda contradicts what you're sayin. She was kinda sayin that all this talk of how the weight is gonna yield "fat slow non handlers" was rubbish.

The 599 had a test weight of over 4000 pounds, over 800 lbs more than the Enzo (curb weight 3865 vs Enzo's 3010), is down on power by 49 hp (611 vs 660), and yet is faster 0-60 by 0.5 sec (3.2 vs 3.7) and only 0.1 sec behind the Enzo in the quarter mile (11.2 sec @ 129.3 mph). Pretty impressive. Even the Ring time you noted of "only 7:47" is damn fast. Hell, anything under 8:00 minutes on the Ring is damn fast. The only car on the list you provided that was faster was the Murcielago. The 599 was faster than an arguably more purpose built Stradale. I don't think there are any stock cars that can dip below high 7:30s.

Bottom line, it's a fast car despite it's weight. I don't know if you wanna use that car to champion your point.
 
#41 ·
Europe's finest sports cars have a hard time breaking 8 minutes at the 'ring. Don't think 4400 lbs wet manual trans 'merican luxo barge is going to up stage European's finest on their home turf. If so, GM better make plans on price and production levels.


Still don't shocks are going make this a new revolution. Manufactures would have done it long time ago and so would race teams.

It's not the "shocks", it's the "shoes" that make the biggest difference!

It's a friction thing! If you have over a decade of driving you'd understand. :)

I'll pay the first round at Lindsay track day in May if my no faster than "8:07 ring time" holds up. Hopefully we'll have some days by then.

Norm
 
#43 ·
#50 ·
MRC/DRC(mag shocks) are not the end all some of you have made it to be.

http://forums.audiworld.com/rs4b7/msgs/19080.phtml

The thread shows tuner who also races, caddy does not have one currently, says that once you change the spring rates or sway bars might as we'll throw those magnetic shocks in the trash!

Would be neat since the RS4 is already using them if V2 could use the Ohlins stuff?
 
#51 ·
Cadillac first used Delphi's MRC on the '02 STS- if performance oriented marques like Audi and Ferrari are licensing the technology, you know it's good.

The article you link to is a blatant advertisement for their product, so of course they're going to rave about how great and how much better than stock it is. Also, changing to a traditional valved shock and stiffer spring will remove the drag launch recognition that the MRC provides. Here's a novel idea- why don't we wait to see some performance figures and drive the car before talking about ditching the stock suspension?
 
#52 ·
If you what Ohlins cost and how they perform you'd be on soap box about them also.

I think we pretty much narrowed the performance measure as in that thread they even mention failures also. So there might be a delay on V2.

The MRC tech was used in the 80's on the Corvette too.

I'd bet that RS6 in previous post is running MRC also and only ran a 8:09 on the 'ring.

The V2 will still be the value leader in it's category, just nothing more and still behind the Vette. :)


Norm
 
#53 ·
Wow- you are really out in left field on this one.

Of course it will be "behind" the Corvette in terms of performance- in case you missed the press release, it's a 4-door Luxury Performance Sedan. It will never compete with the Corvette, nor is it intended to. Why some of you feel the need to compare the two just because of the LSx engine connection is beyond me. Also, MRC was first used in a production vehicle by Cadillac on the 2002 STS- it was never used in a Corvette in the 80's.

The CTS-V will be far more than the "Value Leader" in the class but you'll never admit it, even when the instrumented tests prove you wrong.
 
#54 ·
Funny how the vast majority here are hopeful and excited but obviously very dumb, since NormV and katshot KNOW the new CTS-V will handle like cow udder sludge.

Tell you what guys, why not wait until this car is driven before you declare it a land barge...
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top