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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by thebigjimsho You most certainly can. The SRTs are actually very competent handlers at 4200lbs. The new V ...
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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    You most certainly can. The SRTs are actually very competent handlers at 4200lbs. The new V should be that much better.
    SRT's "very competent handlers"?????
    Sorry but I've driven them all and I'm not sure I'd have them in even my top 20 when choosing an auto-crosser.

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by jasaero View Post
    As much or probably MORE weight is coming from the HUGE brakes. They are about as low as you can get something on the car. The CG could be lower than you are expecting because of this fact.

    EDIT: Also forgot the larger wheels required to got around the pizza sized brakes that are not only larger diameter, but also wider than any previous CTS wheel. These better brakes and wheels are overkill compared to the weight increase also and are going to help figure 8 times by allowing them to stay on the throttle longer in each straight.
    You DO understand that all this extra mass you seem to think is a good thing is actually increased unsprung weight and increasing that is NOT a good thing, right?

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    In a very basic way, yes but you can't simply say, "damn the mass, give it bigger tires". Just doesn't work that way.

    It kinda does. You can get any mass you want to skidpad how you want if you get the cg, track width, tire contact patch and grip right. This car has a wider track and wider rubber. I loved my Gen I but it had absurdly narrow tires for it's mass and engine output, yet still cornered decently. I believe we will see that the wider, further spaced tires on the Gen II more than offset the small percentage mass increase.

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    SRT's "very competent handlers"?????
    Sorry but I've driven them all and I'm not sure I'd have them in even my top 20 when choosing an auto-crosser.
    I don't believe that BigJim called it an autocrosser. I believe he called it a competent handler, which it is. The Miata is a better autocrosser, but I don't believe that adds anything to the discussion here. The question is can a 4,200 lb. vehicle be a competent handler and with proper engineering even outperform a vehicle weighing 3,850. Ala, the V1 vs. the V2. The quick answer is of course, the prudent answer is, we'll find out very soon.

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by thebigjimsho View Post
    You most certainly can. The SRTs are actually very competent handlers at 4200lbs. The new V should be that much better.
    And BTW, what the hell? What the hell?

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Figure-8 results from MT:

    MT fig-eight, sec @ avg g
    25.6 @ 0.72(V)
    26.1 @ 0.68(GTO)
    26.3 @ 0.70(SRT-8)


    http://images.motortrend.com/roadtes...2_trio15_z.jpg


    Don't think the mag shocks(MSRC) are going to make up the almost 400 lbs. difference in V1 and V2. There is a marginal difference on the C5 Corvette when using a stiffer Z51 package compared to MSRC. The V1 will still be the auto cross champ.


    MotorTrend – “The Suspension Dimension.” (September 2004)

    "The performance mode ensures flat cornering no matter what the speed. In a way, the MSR system inspires a bit more confidence when pushing the car hard around the track — it prevents the body from becoming unsettled when the suspension loads and unloads over undulating surfaces.

    "The compromise is the slightly slower turn-in. It just doesn't feel as razor sharp as the Z51 when attacking a corner's apex. The real value however in the MR system is that it nearly eliminates the surprise factor out on the open road when encountering a pothole or other unseen road irregularity.”

    http://www.caranddriver.com/features...disbelief.html

    "Bottom line: Magnetic Selective Ride Control strikes us as a bargain, and if you don't plan to go racing, or if you're buying the roadster, this is likely the best choice."

    MRSC shocks on a C5. Note the extra hardware along with another computer:

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...nits-wear.html

    Norm

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Figure-8 results from MT:

    MT fig-eight, sec @ avg g
    25.6 @ 0.72(V)
    26.1 @ 0.68(GTO)
    26.3 @ 0.70(SRT-8)


    http://images.motortrend.com/roadtes...2_trio15_z.jpg


    Don't think the mag shocks(MSRC) are going to make up the almost 400 lbs. difference in V1 and V2. There is a marginal difference on the C5 Corvette when using a stiffer Z51 package compared to MSRC. The V1 will still be the auto cross champ.


    MotorTrend – “The Suspension Dimension.” (September 2004)

    "The performance mode ensures flat cornering no matter what the speed. In a way, the MSR system inspires a bit more confidence when pushing the car hard around the track — it prevents the body from becoming unsettled when the suspension loads and unloads over undulating surfaces.

    "The compromise is the slightly slower turn-in. It just doesn't feel as razor sharp as the Z51 when attacking a corner's apex. The real value however in the MR system is that it nearly eliminates the surprise factor out on the open road when encountering a pothole or other unseen road irregularity.”

    http://www.caranddriver.com/features...disbelief.html

    "Bottom line: Magnetic Selective Ride Control strikes us as a bargain, and if you don't plan to go racing, or if you're buying the roadster, this is likely the best choice."

    MRSC shocks on a C5. Note the extra hardware along with another computer:

    http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums...nits-wear.html

    Norm

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Fair points but don't forget that that 'vette has the version 1 of the magneto suspension system, made for the street and explicitly not the track. This is the version 2 system some exotics run, and designed for combined track and street use.

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Boys, the new V (which I'm in love with) is an overweight cow, period. A souped up overweight cow with sticky hooves, magneto-rheological flanks, and cast iron udders. Centripetal force pushes a heavier cow harder than a skinny cow, full stop. Once the car mags get hold of production V's, it should be interesting to see what, and how well, the engineers have done to keep the cow from sliding sideways. I'll especially interested in seeing the difference on a skidpad between "Computer: everything on!" (e.g. 'happy cow') and "Computer: everything off!" (e.g. 'barbeque').

    Until then, it's all just pointless Brokeback cowboy yodeling.

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Interesting to me that the new '08 CTS is only .10 slower in the figure 8 than the SRT-8. Hmmmmmm.

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    I got the March 08 Car And Driver with the CTS-V on the cover with the words..

    "CTS-V Cadillac's 550hp M5 Beater"


    In the glowing article which is half as much about the outgoing CTS-V, they say and I quote, "Cadillac expects skidpad performance to be a bit north of 0.90g."

    That is awesome all things considered.

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by lawfive View Post
    Boys, the new V (which I'm in love with) is an overweight cow, period. A souped up overweight cow with sticky hooves, magneto-rheological flanks, and cast iron udders. Centripetal force pushes a heavier cow harder than a skinny cow, full stop. Once the car mags get hold of production V's, it should be interesting to see what, and how well, the engineers have done to keep the cow from sliding sideways. I'll especially interested in seeing the difference on a skidpad between "Computer: everything on!" (e.g. 'happy cow') and "Computer: everything off!" (e.g. 'barbeque').

    Until then, it's all just pointless Brokeback cowboy yodeling.
    LMAO - well said.

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    SRT's "very competent handlers"?????
    Sorry but I've driven them all and I'm not sure I'd have them in even my top 20 when choosing an auto-crosser.
    Quote Originally Posted by CVP33 View Post
    I don't believe that BigJim called it an autocrosser. I believe he called it a competent handler, which it is. The Miata is a better autocrosser, but I don't believe that adds anything to the discussion here. The question is can a 4,200 lb. vehicle be a competent handler and with proper engineering even outperform a vehicle weighing 3,850. Ala, the V1 vs. the V2. The quick answer is of course, the prudent answer is, we'll find out very soon.
    Thanks Chris, you're absolutely right. It's good to see that someone actually reads and can correctly comprehend what I say. I have done my fair share of autocrossing and track days and I understand the difference between the two.

    Yes, all out weight will always deter vehicles with decent handling from putting up good times on a tight course. But that also doesn't disqualify a vehicle from having competent handling on a larger road course and on public roads. Autocrossing is a unique bird that the smaller and lighter vehicles do best in. And while I enjoy autocrossing, I much prefer larger road courses and want my vehicles to do better on the latter.

    As for the SRT Charger/Magnum/300 trio, they most definitely had excellent handling. Not V handling, but certainly very good.

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    You DO understand that all this extra mass you seem to think is a good thing is actually increased unsprung weight and increasing that is NOT a good thing, right?
    YES I do, but it add much more than it subtracts many performance characteristics. And adds more than it subtracts OVER ALL. It will hurt acceleration and suspention efficiency a bit, but not in a huge way compared to how it helps stop the extra weight from the charger and the brakes themselves. Basically nothings free in a design trade study. Ceramic rotors like those on the ZR1 would have been preferable, but those brakes alone are probably worth nearly half the cost of this cars final retail price. I was just pointing out this was probably were most of the weight comes from and it's actually pretty low on the car. Not sure what all else they have done to the suspension either other than it has been stated it is reworked some. It's possible they tried to get back some of the lost suspension efficiency in the heavier rolling hardware by messing with the actual linkage designs.

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    Re: M/T COTY Base CTS Test Data - Interesting

    Why all this crap about weight I don't understand.....

    You want a track car off the showroom floor, buy a Vette, Viper, Lotus, etc etc..

    I am planning on buying this car to go fast and perform while I am listening to my mp3s talking hands free on my cell phone punching in my destination on the NAV while sunning my face through the sunroof and cooling off with the A/C having nice conversation at a reasonable level with my girl sitting next to me... and in the process knowing that not much else is going to fly up the on ramp faster than I.

    I'm sure you can take delivery of your CTS-V, rip out all the shat that makes it a Cadillac, soundproofing, radio, nav, headliner,carpet. backseat,.. while you are at it rip out the passenger front seat cause all passengers do is add weight anyway and you will have yourself one fast track car. Not what Cadillac had in mind, but hey.. its your 70k. You are free to throw away the CTS and just keep the V portion. I'll be happily a few 10ths behind you rocking out to Kid Rock.

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