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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, An AWD "V"? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by Katshot Yeah but notice when they gave up the transverse leaf, the car ascended to a whole ...
  1. #31
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    Yeah but notice when they gave up the transverse leaf, the car ascended to a whole new level of handling etc. I understood what you were saying, was just surprised you brought up something so old. Thought maybe you thought they still used leafsprings.
    ...because, well... they do... o.O

    Even the ZR1 rides on transverse leaf springs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    As for the insistence of a V8, I too feel it's the ONLY engine for the car. Your argument is valid on paper but in my book, enthusiast owners are rarely so analytical.
    See, I believe the opposite. The masses are easily swayed by advertising gimmicks like "hemi", "sport" versions and "hp", but true enthusiasts want results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    I for one would HATE my car to sound like a Viper even though the power would be nice. You ever drive one? Or even hear one up close? Nothing inspiring at all about the exhaust note. There's just more to a car, especially a sports car, than the raw numbers on a spreadsheet. MY car MUST be a V8. The rumble is unmistakable, and something I don't want to live without. A performance car should be not only fast and well handling. It needs to be a feast for the senses. ALL the senses IMO.
    That is a completely subjective argument. For example, it could be argued that a Ferrari V12 sounds much better than any V8.

    BMW's V10 isn't too bad either.

  2. #32
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Sorry, I really didn't know they still used a leaf on the Corvette. Shows how much I care about Corvettes I guess.
    And yes, I realize I'm being subjective with respect to my statement about a V8. That's why I said things like "I feel" or "on my car". I still think a vast majority of American performance car buyers feel the same but I could be wrong.

  3. #33
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    One look at the slobbering masses that are driving up Kleenex stock watching videos of the GT-R online is all it takes to convince me that people care about results over how many cylinders it takes to obtain them.
    Rest in Peace, J.D. (aka Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood)

  4. #34
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    GT-R

  5. #35
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    I thought that Audi answered all the questions about AWD when they went Trans-Am racing against Camaro and Mustang purpose built silhouette race cars with stock bodied Quattros. Hans Stuck and Walter Rohrl made everybody else look like monkeys strictly on handling. They ripped off a string of victories that will probably never be matched. They were running a dinky five cylinder against 5L V8s and embarrassing the competition. The lines they were able to take through the corners made everybody's jaw drop. Not only did they have the Quattro AWD but they kept the steel bodies against race cars. It didn't hurt that they were two wiley old veterans that enjoyed crapping all over the young guys. Hurley Heywood showed them a thing or two as well. The first guy with the throttle wide open coming out of the corners is going to win the race every time and that's what AWD does for you. Ask Roger Penske. Audi handed his head to him.
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  6. #36
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Ya know, I thought I'd read something like that but was afraid to mention it in my post for fear of being called on it. And didn't I read something about recent diesel-powered car outings that trounced the competition?

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by urbanski View Post
    GT-R
    You and me both. Here's the new GTR "Club Sport" caught doing some testing
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCcvLmHn9UQ this is going to be slotted somewhere in the GTR lineup. But rumor has it that this will be the mid level entry followed by the V-Spec which will be even more powerful

  8. #38
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Tony Show View Post
    One look at the slobbering masses that are driving up Kleenex stock watching videos of the GT-R online is all it takes to convince me that people care about results over how many cylinders it takes to obtain them.
    That's one hot-ass car, you gotta admit. At least performance wise. I'm not really a fan of the styling myself. Liked the Skyline better. But if the data that I've been hearing is correct, the car sets all kinds of new benchmarks.

  9. #39
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkozloski View Post
    I thought that Audi answered all the questions about AWD when they went Trans-Am racing against Camaro and Mustang purpose built silhouette race cars with stock bodied Quattros. Hans Stuck and Walter Rohrl made everybody else look like monkeys strictly on handling. They ripped off a string of victories that will probably never be matched. They were running a dinky five cylinder against 5L V8s and embarrassing the competition. The lines they were able to take through the corners made everybody's jaw drop. Not only did they have the Quattro AWD but they kept the steel bodies against race cars. It didn't hurt that they were two wiley old veterans that enjoyed crapping all over the young guys. Hurley Heywood showed them a thing or two as well. The first guy with the throttle wide open coming out of the corners is going to win the race every time and that's what AWD does for you.
    Another thing AWD does for you is wear your tires out faster than the competion too. In the GT World Speed Challenge races in the first couple seasons that Randy Pobst and company raced their RS6 Audis against the CTS-VR they were certainly quick out of the gate and ususally led in the early stages of the race. But the Vs would slowly gain on them throughout the race and were very competive towards the end of the race - if not outright passing and winning. I know the rewards weights added to the cars complicates things but you can safely assume that the heavier the car - the quicker it will wear tires. The Vs were lighter than the Audis and I'm sure the absence of AWD had something to do with it.

  10. #40
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    Ya know, I thought I'd read something like that but was afraid to mention it in my post for fear of being called on it. And didn't I read something about recent diesel-powered car outings that trounced the competition?
    I think Audi has run some diesels in endurance racing and I think they did pretty well.
    Don't mess with Binky Bear!


  11. #41
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    That's one hot-ass car, you gotta admit. At least performance wise. I'm not really a fan of the styling myself. Liked the Skyline better. But if the data that I've been hearing is correct, the car sets all kinds of new benchmarks.
    Here's a link to the first full test of the car http://youtube.com/watch?v=yDoJdQXmwu8
    Here's a dyno chart of one

    But it's dyno'd at 475 hp @ 6,115 rpm and 428 lb.-ft. of torque at 5,130 rpm. Assuming parasitic drivetrain losses around 15% - although the loss could be even larger given the GT-R’s all-wheel drive platform - that would put power at the crank around 550hp and 495lb-ft of torque - absolutely insane numbers for a 3.8L engine, twin-turbo or not.

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkozloski View Post
    I think Audi has run some diesels in endurance racing and I think they did pretty well.
    Yeah, the Audi R10 TDI's were killing it in the LeMans series.

  13. #43
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich H View Post
    Another thing AWD does for you is wear your tires out faster than the competion too. In the GT World Speed Challenge races in the first couple seasons that Randy Pobst and company raced their RS6 Audis against the CTS-VR they were certainly quick out of the gate and ususally led in the early stages of the race. But the Vs would slowly gain on them throughout the race and were very competive towards the end of the race - if not outright passing and winning. I know the rewards weights added to the cars complicates things but you can safely assume that the heavier the car - the quicker it will wear tires. The Vs were lighter than the Audis and I'm sure the absence of AWD had something to do with it.
    AWD spreads the wear across all four tires instead of just the rears. The answer is tire management. It's interesting to note that Dale Earnhardt was a master at tire management and the first advice he gave to Jeff Gordon was to learn tire management. Hans Stuck and Walter Rohrl had learned in the bias ply tire days and had no problem with it.
    Don't mess with Binky Bear!


  14. #44
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Just as a point of comparison, a 2008 S6 weighs less than a couple hundred pounds more than the '09 CTS-V is supposed to. What's the weight difference between the STS and the STS-4?

  15. #45
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by dkozloski View Post
    AWD spreads the wear across all four tires instead of just the rears. The answer is tire management. It's interesting to note that Dale Earnhardt was a master at tire management and the first advice he gave to Jeff Gordon was to learn tire management. Hans Stuck and Walter Rohrl had learned in the bias ply tire days and had no problem with it.
    Part of the answer is tire management. The biggest advantage is going to go to the best handling car and the suspension set-up. Also hp to weight ratio will add a decided advantage. Hence, the lighter the better.

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