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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V Performance Mods Discussion, An AWD "V"? in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by Katshot I must admit, I've always wondered about the model overlap between the CTS and STS. Maybe ...
  1. #16
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    I must admit, I've always wondered about the model overlap between the CTS and STS. Maybe the CTS is destined to be the more hard-edged model of the two. I'd love to see the actual business plan for these two cars. What GM's views are on them. Why THEY feel there's a need for BOTH cars. Hell, the same could ALMOST be said for the DTS and STS too.
    There is no need for both. GM is axing both the STS and DTS to be replaced with a single 7-series sized model. I believe the current STS was just a placeholder to ease the transition from the SeVille to the upcoming replacement.

    The CTS is our 5-series and they are bringing the next generation BLS here to fill the smaller 3-series slot.

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by gothicaleigh View Post
    There is no need for both. GM is axing both the STS and DTS to be replaced with a single 7-series sized model. I believe the current STS was just a placeholder to ease the transition from the SeVille to the upcoming replacement.

    The CTS is our 5-series and they are bringing the next generation BLS here to fill the smaller 3-series slot.
    That sounds better. Just hope the future BLS does better than the current one.

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    5+ page argument? Jeez you have some memory!
    I dont get in an many arguments as you so it makes them easier to remember

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brett View Post
    I dont get in an many arguments as you so it makes them easier to remember
    OUCH!!!

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    OUCH!!!
    LOL

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    I can think of one reason to make AWD an option. And that is for all the Snow Belt people. I dont think they should have to buy a second car for the sake of "purity".

    Snow is a bitch, no matter what anyone says. Someone will come on here and thump their chest saying, put on some snow tires and deal with it, but AWD is far superior.

    A short list of cars I had when I lived in Chicago: Mustang, Trans Am, GN, C5. They all SUCKED. Even with snow tires. I could have easliy flipped or crashed any of them several times.

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Agreed. At least if you have a manual trans, you have a fighting chance but those cars aren't very good in snow, you're right.
    Plus, you have to consider that GM hopes to sell some of these in the export market which includes some areas of the world that would benefit from AWD.
    Plus plus, I still have a problem with understanding why someone would buy one of these if they're looking for a car for the track. Sure, you can do it but why, when there are so many other cars out there that are a more natural fit for the track. Face it, the percentage of owners who will ever actually take their cars to the track is relatively small, so even though they COULD, why restrict the car's appeal to appease such a small group? After all, the point is to sell cars, right?

  8. #23
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    Agreed. At least if you have a manual trans, you have a fighting chance but those cars aren't very good in snow, you're right.
    Plus, you have to consider that GM hopes to sell some of these in the export market which includes some areas of the world that would benefit from AWD.
    Plus plus, I still have a problem with understanding why someone would buy one of these if they're looking for a car for the track. Sure, you can do it but why, when there are so many other cars out there that are a more natural fit for the track. Face it, the percentage of owners who will ever actually take their cars to the track is relatively small, so even though they COULD, why restrict the car's appeal to appease such a small group? After all, the point is to sell cars, right?
    It seems to have worked well enough thus far for BMW's ///M division. No AWD there either despite offering it in their base models since at least the 80's.

    Also you underestimate the number of people who would never explore the limits of a car but want to be able to say that it could. The bragging rights demographic is very large.

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Nobody says you need to play "follow the leader"

    As for the "bragging rights" crowd, most of them are tools who don't know anything about cars and the AWD would be something for them to actually brag about. Talk to some Carrera 4 owners and see what their opinion of a Carrera 2 is.

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    True, and don't get me started about Audi. Goth, I'm getting tired of hearing about what BMW does to be honest. On one hand, you want to say how Cadillac is or will be better than BMW but on the other hand you use BMW as an example of what to do or not to do. You want to have Cadillac trash the idea of using a V8 with a wide powerband too?

  11. #26
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    True, and don't get me started about Audi. Goth, I'm getting tired of hearing about what BMW does to be honest.
    ...and plenty of us get tired of hearing about what Cadillac does not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    On one hand, you want to say how Cadillac is or will be better than BMW but on the other hand you use BMW as an example of what to do or not to do.
    Cadillac executives use BMW as an example of what to do or not to do. They have never been shy about who exactly they are targeting. BMW has long been the benchmark for this part of the auto industry, so the comparison is natural.

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot
    You want to have Cadillac trash the idea of using a V8 with a wide powerband too?
    Where did this come from?

    I want them to use what works. If that means a Chevy LS V8, fine. But say a small straight 4 is the best answer, why not use it? The ends justify the means. The argument that the engine must be a V8 is as ridiculous as those who argue that the Corvette is a lesser car than [insert flavor of the week here] because it has a pushrod engine and leafsprings. The ends justify the means.

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Corvette, leafsprings????? Huh??
    Okay, anyway, where was I? Oh yeah, my point is that Cadillac shouldn't be doing things just because BMW does, and I don't think that you using what BMW does as an adequate reason for Cadillac to do something is right either.
    Bottom line, Cadillac is looking to compete head to head with BMW AND OTHERS but, they also have some unique issues to contend with. For that reason, I can understand paying attention to what the competition does but not necessarily using them as a blueprint.
    I for one like the fact that GM is using the engine they are verses a high-revving, low-torque V10. I also think that as a marketing concession they're probably right in offering an automatic (although I'm sure as a "purist" the decision probably offends you) since it's all about selling cars.

  13. #28
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    Corvette, leafsprings????? Huh??
    The Corvette has a long history of riding on transverse leafsprings. The same flat-earthers that point out the OHV "pushrod" LS engine as a "flaw" usually also like to point to the leafsprings (neither argument is very good though).

    The insistance of a V8 around here is akin to that. The technology used should be immaterial if the results produced are desirable.

  14. #29
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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Katshot View Post
    5+ page argument? Jeez you have some memory!
    a memory as large as his pecs

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    Re: An AWD "V"?

    Yeah but notice when they gave up the transverse leaf, the car ascended to a whole new level of handling etc. I understood what you were saying, was just surprised you brought up something so old. Thought maybe you thought they still used leafsprings.
    As for the insistence of a V8, I too feel it's the ONLY engine for the car. Your argument is valid on paper but in my book, enthusiast owners are rarely so analytical. I for one would HATE my car to sound like a Viper even though the power would be nice. You ever drive one? Or even hear one up close? Nothing inspiring at all about the exhaust note. There's just more to a car, especially a sports car, than the raw numbers on a spreadsheet. MY car MUST be a V8. The rumble is unmistakable, and something I don't want to live without. A performance car should be not only fast and well handling. It needs to be a feast for the senses. ALL the senses IMO.

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