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Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

9K views 68 replies 31 participants last post by  vfaninva 
#1 ·
#5 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

I think that article was very well written and insightful. I am an engineer with a marketing degree, I have always tried to design what the market wants and throw in a little extra so they will be happy in the end. As an Engineer, I like what Mary Barra, she is a smart lady but, I think she thinks she is out of her league with which direction Cadillac needs to go and along come Johan with a vision and I think he is selling Mary more than he is selling cars. He is abandoning his base to go after a vision of a market that doesn't exist. That is great if you can keep your base as you go after this new market it is a disaster if you loose your base and don't capture that new market. On Tuesday for the first time in twenty years I bought a car other than a Cadillac, I bought a Buick Lacrosse. I was kind of shocked and had a head ache that night but, the AWD CTS was not worth the $23,000 more than the Buick even though it did have a slightly better ride and a slightly better sound system the Buick was 57% the cost of the CTS and I couldn't justify it even though I could easily afford the difference.

In November Buick sales were up 32.9% Chevrolet up 7.3% and Cadillac down 15.3%. Mary, you need to wake up and take charge of the direction that Johan is wanting to go, he is slick but, in my opinion he is just plain wrong. Cadillac's price is just to high for what you get. Cadillac has some awesome cars (best ever in my opinion) but, you are not going to sell them at the price they are at right now. Cadillac could make serious inroads into BMW, Mercedes and really hurt Lexus and Infinity with the offerings they have right now and then build up your offerings to go after this new market that Johan and Robin seem to be dreaming about. It has taken 15 years to get Cadillac back in the game of high quality cars don't be satisfied with pie in the sky vision and keep your feet on the ground while you reach for the stars. The new CTS-V and the ATS-V are perfect opportunities that you have to build the brand and bolster the market please, please don't price them so high that you don't sell enough of them to get the word out. You need a few lead foots to go out and dominate the BMW's and AMG's out there and the market will come to you instead of trying to wait for the market to develop. I have complete faith in your abilities Mary, go out their and get it done.
 
#14 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

I think that article was very well written and insightful. I am an engineer with a marketing degree, I have always tried to design what the market wants and throw in a little extra so they will be happy in the end. As an Engineer, I like what Mary Barra, she is a smart lady but, I think she thinks she is out of her league with which direction Cadillac needs to go and along come Johan with a vision and I think he is selling Mary more than he is selling cars. He is abandoning his base to go after a vision of a market that doesn't exist. That is great if you can keep your base as you go after this new market it is a disaster if you loose your base and don't capture that new market. On Tuesday for the first time in twenty years I bought a car other than a Cadillac, I bought a Buick Lacrosse. I was kind of shocked and had a head ache that night but, the AWD CTS was not worth the $23,000 more than the Buick even though it did have a slightly better ride and a slightly better sound system the Buick was 57% the cost of the CTS and I couldn't justify it even though I could easily afford the difference.

In November Buick sales were up 32.9% Chevrolet up 7.3% and Cadillac down 15.3%. Mary, you need to wake up and take charge of the direction that Johan is wanting to go, he is slick but, in my opinion he is just plain wrong. Cadillac's price is just to high for what you get. Cadillac has some awesome cars (best ever in my opinion) but, you are not going to sell them at the price they are at right now. Cadillac could make serious inroads into BMW, Mercedes and really hurt Lexus and Infinity with the offerings they have right now and then build up your offerings to go after this new market that Johan and Robin seem to be dreaming about. It has taken 15 years to get Cadillac back in the game of high quality cars don't be satisfied with pie in the sky vision and keep your feet on the ground while you reach for the stars. The new CTS-V and the ATS-V are perfect opportunities that you have to build the brand and bolster the market please, please don't price them so high that you don't sell enough of them to get the word out. You need a few lead foots to go out and dominate the BMW's and AMG's out there and the market will come to you instead of trying to wait for the market to develop. I have complete faith in your abilities Mary, go out their and get it done.
Cadillac's prices went up before Johan so it's kind of moot to blame him for the pricing strategy.

The fact is that Cadillac still doesn't have the reputation. Bottom line is most people who buy luxury cars are not petrol heads. That's why the Mercedes CLA sells so well. Most people don't give a damn if it's FWD or RWD. They care more about the fact that they have the 3 pointed star.

Cadillac's done a decent job with the cabin, but the CUE system turned off a lot of consumers from initial impressions. And plus we also know about the "stellar" service from some Cadillac dealerships. Plus stuff like this doesn't help:



They should learn from Audi who really stepped up their brand recognition over the last decade.

Personally I don't give a damn. The more popular the car, the more pricks you attract. I'm fine with not driving a "cockmobile" in LA

----------

“Cadillac needs fewer shallow knuckleheads like Ms. Lee spouting truly stupid junk and more people capable of, for example, getting Cadillac’s dealers to treat people as well as Audi, BMW and Mercedes-Benz dealers treat theirs.”
haha QFT
 
#6 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

Don't believe everything you read. GM and Cadillac is dedicated to the V-Series line of vehicles or there wouldn't be an ATS-V and there wouldn't be a 3rd generation CTS-V debuting next month in Detroit at the NAIAS. As long as Cadillac produces the V-Series vehicles, I am a Cadillac brand loyal buyer.
 
#7 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

The reason BMW and Audi have what Cadillac is missing is because no matter which BMW (or Audi) you buy from the BMW 1 series to the 7 Series it is designed and built in BMW factory by BMW engineers. BMW is built in. With Cadillac, Cadillac is added on. Remember GM also builds the Spark. It's like trying to sell a Tifanny diamond ring at Walmart. It may still be a Tifanny ring but to the people that matter they will never go into a Walmart to buy it. You can't overcome that by having an office in New York unless they are willing to divorce Cadillac from GM and establish it as a completely separate brand that uses no parts from GM.
 
#20 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

The reason BMW and Audi have what Cadillac is missing is because no matter which BMW (or Audi) you buy from the BMW 1 series to the 7 Series it is designed and built in BMW factory by BMW engineers. BMW is built in. With Cadillac, Cadillac is added on. Remember GM also builds the Spark. It's like trying to sell a Tifanny diamond ring at Walmart. It may still be a Tifanny ring but to the people that matter they will never go into a Walmart to buy it. You can't overcome that by having an office in New York unless they are willing to divorce Cadillac from GM and establish it as a completely separate brand that uses no parts from GM.
I dunno, audi/porsche seems to do ok, and its just a vw. Take a close look at the jetta/passat and then the audi. Same. I think I have seen where porshe has used vw engines and a few lucky vw owners have gotten porsche ones. Agree bmw is the lone holdout without multiple nameplates. Benz has maybach, but thats going up not down:)
 
#10 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

I miss Bob Lutz.
QFT

This band of loons taking over at Cadillac won't last.

People buy luxury car brands because they are known for their PRODUCT.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

Unfortunately most of the people I know buy their cars strictly because of the brand name. They could care less what the 0-60 time is, they've never come close to shifting a gear, they will never pick up a car magazine and they think driving is a major chore. We as petrol heads are overwhelmingly opposed and bitterly offended by her words, but unfortunately we comprise the extreme minority and are simply over matched.
 
#13 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

Let's pretend for a moment that you have no brand loyalty at all to any particular car company.

Now you are in the market for a performance car and like a lot of us you see the commercials on TV and ad print. Let's focus on the TV ads for just a moment, and remember, you have no preconceived notions about Cadillac or BMW. I'm using these two brands because they happen to represent a portion of the segment.

You're watching football on any given Sunday and all of a sudden you see the commercials for BMW. What do you witness? Men AND women driving what appears to be exciting and fun to drive cars on TRACKS. Hmmmm...you wonder, that looks like a car that performs well, and is fun to drive. After all, you are in the market for a performance car, and performance cars belong on a track! Maybe I should go down to my local BMW dealership and see what they have to offer.

But wait! After a few more change of possessions in the game, another performance car company wants your attention. What do we see in this particular commercial?

A rather odd and nerdy looking fellow with an unsightly and loud shirt he has just purchased, and is sheepishly walking down what could be a New York (?) street. He is surprised by the onlookers giving him what appears to be approving glances as a good looking Coupe is actually stealing their attention in the background as annoying music plays.

Hmmm you wonder...is this car actually built to compete with the other cars in this segment? The ones driving on a track and showing how well they handle and how well they perform? Or is this company just trying to sell me on the idea of driving a car for it's appearance?

Who would I rather be? The guy or gal with the performance car on the track, or the guy with the insecurity and stupid looking shirt that needs approval of strangers?

If I had no brand loyalty and was in the market for a performance car, and saw these two commercials, which dealership would the COMMERCIALS prompt me to visit?

Answer the question honestly and I think I know what you would say. If these are the types of commercials that the new brass in New York wants to give as an impression of the car company we love, we are in serious trouble. Trying to lure loyal owners of German made cars away with those types of commercials is going to be impossible.
 
#15 ·
dennych said:
Cadillac's prices went up before Johan so it's kind of moot to blame him for the pricing strategy. The fact is that Cadillac still doesn't have the reputation. Bottom line is most people who buy luxury cars are not petrol heads. That's why the Mercedes CLA sells so well. Most people don't give a damn if it's FWD or RWD. They care more about the fact that they have the 3 pointed star. Cadillac's done a decent job with the cabin, but the CUE system turned off a lot of consumers from initial impressions. And plus we also know about the "stellar" service from some Cadillac dealerships. Plus stuff like this doesn't help: YouTube Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvvo4u1IOtQ They should learn from Audi who really stepped up their brand recognition over the last decade. Personally I don't give a damn. The more popular the car, the more pricks you attract. I'm fine with not driving a "cockmobile" in LA ---------- haha QFT
Mercedes is an aspirational brand. They got that way by combining luxury and performance for years. The CLA is an attempt to make that aspirational brand attainable to younger people.

Cadillac is no longer an aspirational brand. Don't get me wrong, they have improved their products, but they had a long way to go before people aspire to own a Benz or BMW.
 
#18 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

Cadillac is no longer an aspirational brand. Don't get me wrong, they have improved their products, but they had a long way to go before people aspire to own a Benz or BMW.
Ain't that the truth. Problem has been decades of being a stale brand in the eyes of consumers. Not to mention the general stigma of American cars. It's easier for them to fix that in the performance market (C7 corvette) but the luxury market is another beast. I love the V series and I actually enjoyed the test drives in the modern Cadillacs, but I'm not your typical luxury car buyer here. I mean when I picked the V I was cross shopping a BRZ/FR-S, GT-R, and the V Wagon.

On that note, it's interesting to see the higher luxury brands like Porsche start to wiggle into the "standard" luxury space with the Macan and Maserati with the Ghibli. This field is starting to get very crowded.
 
#16 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

Dennych,
Yes, Cadillac raised their prices before Johan came on board and maybe they told him he can lower the prices just yet. Maybe I am being unfair to him, what I really want is for Cadillac to not over price the new CTS-V because I want one and I will pay cash for it unless it is above what I think is reasonable for the car. Others are right also about the dealer experience, I have a small dealer here but, they do go out of their way to provide the best service they can, I do appreciate that. The dealership is Axtell Taylor in Logan, UT. I love my V and want another V to put in the garage so, I can have a V2 and a V3. I am extremely excited for the new V and I know this car would not be possible if the Corvette (GM performance team) and Cadillac had not shared technology and I don't want Johan to interfere with that mix in his quest for a new "Luxury" market. Who knows the guy could be brilliant and have a great plan, I am also an engineer but, I do have a marketing degree although that surely doesn't mean that I know anything about the luxury car market other than I want a new V3 at a reasonable price.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

Dennych,
Yes, Cadillac raised their prices before Johan came on board and maybe they told him he can lower the prices just yet. Maybe I am being unfair to him, what I really want is for Cadillac to not over price the new CTS-V because I want one and I will pay cash for it unless it is above what I think is reasonable for the car. Others are right also about the dealer experience, I have a small dealer here but, they do go out of their way to provide the best service they can, I do appreciate that. The dealership is Axtell Taylor in Logan, UT. I love my V and want another V to put in the garage so, I can have a V2 and a V3. I am extremely excited for the new V and I know this car would not be possible if the Corvette (GM performance team) and Cadillac had not shared technology and I don't want Johan to interfere with that mix in his quest for a new "Luxury" market. Who knows the guy could be brilliant and have a great plan, I am also an engineer but, I do have a marketing degree although that surely doesn't mean that I know anything about the luxury car market other than I want a new V3 at a reasonable price.
Yes, ALL Cadillac vehicles right now are overpriced and that is the main reason why Cadillac sales are sliding. It's not rocket science! The people at GM and Cadillac got a little too confident with their pricing in the last year or so and they have no reason to be confident. They haven't proven themselves in the marketplace to justify the high sticker prices. Most people don't know how to buy a car and fear the haggling process, so even though you can get thousands off the MSRP on a Cadillac, the initial sticker shock scares them away. They are losing former Cadillac customers because of the higher prices and new potential customers won't buy a Cadillac for the same price of a Mercedes, BMW, Audi or Lexus. People don't perceive Cadillacs or any GM vehicles worthy when compared to a German luxury vehicle. GM shot themselves in the foot long ago and they still haven't been able to shake the negative stigma people in the U.S. have of American cars. It is going to take at least 10 more years before Cadillac is seen as a vehicle on par with it's German counterparts no matter how much better their products are.

I can tell you that the new CTS-V is going to be overpriced. Look at the ATS-V pricing. ATS-V pricing is more than the V2 and the V2 Coupe is being sold currently on dealer lots. I predict that the 2016 CTS-V will start at $80K as a starting base price.

It's not just Cadillac, but ALL GM brands pricing has shot up big time over the last 18 months and they are losing potential customers left and right. Until they lower MSRP amounts, people will not take a chance on a Cadillac or GM vehicle.
 
#19 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

Cadillac has a long way to go, in my opinion. I'm not too sure if Cadillac knows where (or what) it wants to be at this point, but the old equalizer and measure of success is sales and profits. It's no secret that Cadillac's sales performance lately is not going in the direction that GM wants it to. This is the first thing that has to be fixed - never mind all the marketing smoke and mirrors referencing lifestyle and image.
If Cadillac wants to build sales as well as their reputation, then they need to build an excellent product and sell it at a price point where the consumer is able to perceive that the product offers good value. It can still be expensive, but the value must be there. This is not rocket science - it's an old, tried and proven marketing formula.
Simply jacking up prices as an image-building tool and perhaps also to increase profit margins ain't gonna cut it today. That's not a long-term strategy that's workable, nor will it fool the market.

Best regards,

Elie
 
#23 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

As I said before Cadillac needs to expand the range of models that they sell.

Checking the Cadillac website it shows 6 different models including 2 SUV's.
Mercedes has 11 different models.
Audi has 14 models.
BMW has 14 models to chose from
I'm not counting coupes, convertibles or station wagon version as separate models.
 
#24 ·
Not that I disagree with your point, but keep in mind that there is reason why BMW, Mercedes, and Audi have so many more models. They are global sellers with many different models that are designed and sold to many countries with different vehicle tastes and requirements.
 
#27 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.



How true! Got back last month after spending 3 weeks in Scotland and Ireland. BMWs, M-Bs and Audis were all over the place - a dime a dozen! Lotsa diesels!
How many Cadillacs did I see? Nary a one... 'nuff said.

Best regards,

Elie
 
#28 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

Cadillac is not in a position where they can be firing customers right now. Suggest they broaden the base of the brand first, continue to refine both product and dealer network. I'm definitely happy with the direction they're headed with their products but agree $100k for the Escalade is really pushing the envelope.
 
#31 · (Edited)
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.



Nysschen has more important issues to address than sales.
Like moving to NY city and renaming Cadillac cars.
He has stated many times that he doesn't mind losing existing customers.

I hope that he gets fired soon before he destroys Cadillac.
 
#30 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

What keeps a customer coming back, is the service dept. I brought my daughter a Dodge. 3 different dealers treat me like I'm a 2nd class citizen. When I go into a Caddy dealer for service, I'm treated with respect.

About those Audi's, I really like the looks.
 
#32 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

Its a risk. They might lose a lot of interest in its current loyalty base to appear more desireable to the world market. It might play out ok it might not. I won't buy it, I'll go back to mopar because they still get it even if its half or more Fiat now. Or, maybe I'll look into one of the new mustangs after the new platform gets the little things worked out. The point is, I have no desire to own and drive cars, that try to appeal to the typical BMW owner. I like BMW's, and I've considered them every time I go to purchase a new car, but they never really make me bite for a variety of reasons. Part of that reason, is I simply don't feel right in the car, nor the community it puts me in by default.

The last few media blasts thrown out there by Caddilac as a brand hasn't appealed to me at all and have continued to look like a bunch of weird retro euro trash garbage. But...thats just one mans opinion.
 
#36 ·
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.

As I see it, BMW has a reputation for making cars that drive well. People think BMW and immediately think "ultimate driving machine". In that context, Cadillac becoming BMW isn't a bad thing, because they're already making cars that are driver-focused, and not the rolling couches of yesteryear. I think where they're going wrong is the way they're assuming they already have the same kind of market presence and marketing clout that BMW has. And they don't. Not even a little bit.

To this day, the majority of people I talk to about Cadillacs aren't even aware that a V series performance line EXISTS. The general consensus is that nothing has changed since the 80s, and Cadillacs are still horrible land barges for old people. Cadillac is trying to make a run into the end zone without the ball. They're doing everything they can to match BMW, even raising their prices, and their cars are the best part - they're not just matching, but beating BMWs in head to head testing. From their perspective, they're already ahead of BMW in this game.

They're just really badly delusional about how people perceive the Cadillac brand. They are absolutely not in a position to take on BMW head to head in terms of the open market because nobody is even looking in Cadillac's direction. They need to work much, much harder to get public opinion to turn around, and then the cars will sell themselves. The cars aren't the problem, Cadillac is making some of the best cars on the road right now.

But nobody knows that, other than hardcore enthusiasts who watch MT head to head comparisons. And this whole move to NY, the whole attempt to change the brand, is worth nothing if nobody is paying attention. What's really frustrating is how hard Cadillac's engineers have worked to make excellent cars, just to have the braindead Bobs in corporate screw it all up by not presenting and marketing the cars properly.

People still don't understand that Cadillac is making not just adequate cars now, but really good cars - maybe even great cars. Until that changes, nothing is going to come of what the top half of Cadillac is doing.
 
#37 · (Edited)
^^^Agree. If GM would fire the elitist, ignorant marketing group that produces commercials with 1940's music, and hire people who know cars and enjoy driving, they would have much more success.
The latest Christmas commercial sucks even more than the ridiculous robot spot from this summer. They took a perfectly good song by the Clash and turned it into sucky sock hop tune and paired it with a shiny boring commercial.
GM needs to pull their collective heads out and realize that their marketing has to come into the 21st century.
Show these terrific cars in action on the roads, and the V's (Gen 3, ATS V, CTS V Sport) on the track!
 
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