Looks like its over for us V lovers. The Europeans are going to ruin this iconic American brand. I guess we can look forward to the Montblanc edition CTS. What a sad day for me. I miss Bob Lutz.
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.
Looks like it might be time to go back to Corvette's again! I came to the V in 2009 due to the V-2 styling, performance and a quality seat from my 2008 Zo6. Now with the current delemia of owning a V-6 with turbo's just doesn't sound good!! We need the LT-4 with a minor de-tune like they did in 2009 so we didn't steal the lime light from the ZR1. In 2009 our V's out performed the M-5 hands down, now they have released they new version and have finally surpassed the current V badly in a heads up track meet. Now bust out our V-3 and see where the BMW chumps have to say when all they see is the tail light going away from them real fast. Not looking good for us V performance gearheads that want a little value for all our hard earned money. If the V-3 is 80K or more, I'll be getting back into the C-7 Zo6 market for the same price and I'm surfer a lot of previous vetted owners will do the same. There's no reason we need to pay BMW/MB prices just because our cars are compared against each other!!
Looks like it might be time to go back to Corvette's again! I came to the V in 2009 due to the V-2 styling, performance and a quality seat from my 2008 Zo6. Now with the current delemia of owning a V-6 with turbo's just doesn't sound good!! We need the LT-4 with a minor de-tune like they did in 2009 so we didn't steal the lime light from the ZR1. In 2009 our V's out performed the M-5 hands down, now they have released they new version and have finally surpassed the current V badly in a heads up track meet. Now bust out our V-3 and see where the BMW chumps have to say when all they see is the tail light going away from them real fast. Not looking good for us V performance gearheads that want a little value for all our hard earned money. If the V-3 is 80K or more, I'll be getting back into the C-7 Zo6 market for the same price and I'm surfer a lot of previous vetted owners will do the same. There's no reason we need to pay BMW/MB prices just because our cars are compared against each other!! Mike P.
Agreed. "Gearheads" gave Cadillac credibility with the "V's" but now we have flaky Wall Street marketing self-appointed "experts" and an uppity CEO from So. Africa. So who cares about the group that lifted them up from 1980's obscurities. Too bad, Cadillac was starting to make some great cars that transcended incompetent management.
I'm preparing myself for mild disappointment in the V3's performance. Not that it won't be a great performance/luxury car, I'm sure it will be. Just not significantly more than the V2 IMO.
I expect 600ish HP, and 250-350 lb lighter.
On the bright side, it will hopefully have all the latest tech like on the C7.
I wasn't around in the 60's, but I note a few things I gathered from the review:
1. BMW wasn't automatically a status symbol, except to car guys in the know
2. BMW wasn't the most expensive sport or luxury car, but offered incredible performance for the price
3. BMW made a virtue of being focused and simple rather than being the most tech-y/complicated/bling-y car you could buy
4. BMW was different - not the something all the ladder-climbers would stick in their driveway to show their neighbors they were successful
In other words, precisely what BMW in this decade is not, and what I think the 2009-2014 CTS-V was ... [ignore the bit in the article about gas mileage]
If it wasn't already German, I'd be tempted to say it could be as American as Mom's apple pie or Rapp Brown's carbine. Not American in the same sense as the contemporary domestic car, with all its vast complexity and nouveau riche self-consciousness, but American in the sense of Thomas Edison and a-penny-saved-is-a-penny-earned and Henry Ford I (before his ego overloaded all the fuses and short-circuited his mind and conscience). The 2002 mirrors faithfully all those basic tenets of the Puritan ethic on which our Republic was supposedly based. It does everything it's supposed to do, and it does it with ingenuity, style, and verve.
I'm in the camp that Cadillac can't buy it's way into being BMW by mirroring its current ridiculous product range and prices, ads, etc. It needs to be different, better and cheaper and grow a reputation of consistently excellent cars over at least 2 or 3 decades.
i'm in the camp that cadillac can't buy it's way into being bmw by mirroring its current ridiculous product range and prices, ads, etc. It needs to be different, better and cheaper and grow a reputation of consistently excellent cars over at least 2 or 3 decades.
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.
I think the original article is pretty clueless to be honest.
Who on this V-forum really cares if Cadillac is losing loyalists? Of course sales are going down because the folks looking for a rolling sofa now have fewer choices from Cadillac. It's about time Cadillac retools its marketing team, because the old team marketing rolling sofas wasn't doing justice to the brand...
I'm sure sales may get worse before they get better as Cadillac transforms the brand. So expect even more mud-flinging articles like this one. But meanwhile margins will improve and the brand becomes more profitable -- after all, business success isn't based on proliferating the most low margin vehicles.
I used to be a BMW loyalist -- but went to a V1, V2 and I'm hoping for a V3 next. Something must be working...
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.
^^^ not sure I agree with your assessment but, I am glad you put up your thoughts on this thread and glad you have bought V1 and V2. There are a few ways to get margins to improve, being in manufacturing of large high dollar products myself. From my prospective increasing volume to between 85% and 95% of capacity and working on constraints, throughput and lean manufacturing are far more effective at increasing profits than raising prices and waiting for the volume to come. People get stuck on maximizing margins when actually maximizing profit dollars is by far more important. It is very hard to recover from a downward trend, layoffs or furloughs don't reduce the costs of the buildings, warrantee and other expenses.
^^^ not sure I agree with your assessment but, I am glad you put up your thoughts on this thread and glad you have bought V1 and V2. There are a few ways to get margins to improve, being in manufacturing of large high dollar products myself. From my prospective increasing volume to between 85% and 95% of capacity and working on constraints, throughput and lean manufacturing are far more effective at increasing profits than raising prices and waiting for the volume to come. People get stuck on maximizing margins when actually maximizing profit dollars is by far more important. It is very hard to recover from a downward trend, layoffs or furloughs don't reduce the costs of the buildings, warrantee and other expenses.
Great points. I agree optimizing total profit is more important than margins...
However, when people are upset because Cadillac is getting closer to price parity with the German competition, yet these same folks won't compromise on product quality, aren't they just asking Cadillac to slice margins? Otherwise, where would Cadillac's perceived pricing advantage come from?
- Better economies of scale by leveraging parts from the GM parts bin? (no one seems to love the end result of that)
- Sacrificing aspects of the end product? That was the V1 -- 2/3 the price of the competition, drives as well or better than the competition but plastic interior by rubbermaid that feels much cheaper than the competition
At one end of the spectrum, a manufacturer can dump cheap inferior product on the market -- at the other end, a manufacturer can overprice quality product. At least the latter case is fixable by tuning margins/volume/manufacturing to maximize profit dollars (or just plain old discounting).
Having the same or better product than the competition at substantial discount is what we all want. Seems manufacturers like Hyundai can pull this off...except they don't make V's. Not sure if a US manufacturer can ever achieve this type of cost advantage. If you want to settle for cheaper, there's always the Chevy SS -- less car for less money.
As far as the concerns that Cadillac is copying BMW, introducing completely new and different product categories is highly risky when the competition has established the luxury car categories. Look at the ELR -- a very unique sleek car that's cheaper (but inferior) to the Tesla, with sales near zero.
I just see the article as taking potshots at a company undergoing transformation. If there are loyalist who still want a Fleetwood, there's always Lexus and Lincoln.
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.
The weather in Utah has been incredibly warm averaging about 20 degrees over normal. We are down to 10 over, got a bunch of snow in the mountains today but, rain in the valley. Enjoy your trip it is beautiful out here. Might have to shovel some snow in the morning though.
The MSRP of the base Corvette is about $8k higher than the base CTS, I know that doesn't mean much but, hoping.
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.
^^^I am not sure I agree, I would think getting the cars out there on the road for others to see and desire would be a better plan. I hope they shoot for 5000 units and price them accordingly. This would be the best way to build the brand in my opinion.
5,000 is pretty ambitious considering they will most likely start at $80k+, making them accessible to a much smaller market. A much smaller market that typically shops Euro brands and has yet to see the value in an American luxury brand. I read somewhere that The V2's best selling year was 2011 when they sold 4,500 units total. I'm not sure that is accurate, but probably close. Cadillac doesn't need yet another model collecting dust on their lots. Especially a halo car like the V3.
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.
Yes. I think 2011 was 4500 or 4700 units total with Coupe, Vagon and Sedan and being basically the into year of the first two. I know 5k is probably not going to happen but, basically I would like to see them priced reasonably enough so that as the economy picks up and there is some pent up demand since there really wasn't a 2015 V (other than the 500 coupes). It is possible if they price it low enough to lure some M5 and AMG buyers over to the dark side. I know I am on the bubble, definitely don't need one but, really want one if the price is not to high. Sure looks like a great car, I would really like to see this car do some damage to the Germans.
Re: Cadillac doesn't want us "petrolheads". They want to turn Caddy into BMW.
The market is changing. Lots of the newer target market want new and shiny..not necessarily fast..which is sad. The best arguments for the performance models would be Lexus...the "F" and "F-Sport" models helped bring them back into focus, since they were getting stale. Honda quit doing performance cars, but BMW has not, nor will ever drop the ///M...The manufacturers will never forget petrolheads
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Related Threads
?
?
?
?
?
Cadillac Owners Forum
4.8M posts
369.7K members
Since 2002
Cadillac Forums is the perfect place to go to talk about your favorite Caddys including the ATS, CTS, SRX, Escalade, LYRIQ, Vistiq, concept and future Cadillac models.