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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Cadillac has an opportunity here in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Regarding super wagons, we all know there are only two available in the US: The CTS-V wagon and the Mercedes ...
  1. #1
    Xaqtly's Avatar
    Xaqtly is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Cadillac has an opportunity here

    Regarding super wagons, we all know there are only two available in the US: The CTS-V wagon and the Mercedes E63 S wagon. The 2014 E63 S wagon has more power and AWD to help with traction, and on paper it's a monster. But in reality, on a track, it's more like this:

    Doesn't feel special. Everything I've heard about the old E63 wagon was that it was a hairy beast to drive all the time. The all wheel drive makes this one tame, almost docile. Manhandling it will still make it slide, but the magic is kind of gone. It's a fun drive, but not the wild child I was led to believe it once was.

    And that transmission. It feels like it's four gears behind. The delay pulling a paddle to the next gear engaging might as well be a week.
    http://jalopnik.com/driving-the-shit...u-c-1371519527

    Without getting into the validity of AWD in general, there are plenty of examples that prove that AWD works at supercar levels, this is an opportunity for Cadillac. In that same article, they tested the C7 Z51 Vette and it's pretty clear that the winds are shifting. GM is now making the cream of the crop, and Mercedes/BMW isn't.

    If everything we believe to be true about the upcoming V3 CTS-V is at least mostly accurate (less weight, somewhat more HP, gen 3 magneride etc) there is an opportunity here for Cadillac to own the superwagon market. Clearly GM has figured out what makes a sports car incredible to drive, and I don't expect the V3 CTS-V to be any different. As I see it the real hurdle would be convincing them they need to make a wagon variant of the CTS, but if they did, a gen 3 CTS-V wagon would have the potential to easily become the best one out there, even vs cars that aren't sold in the US like the Audi RS6 Avant.

    Other countries like great wagons. Cadillac has a branding problem in other countries. The solution writes itself. Come on Cadillac, do the right thing.
    neuronbob, bnagel, sfvagon and 2 others like this.

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  3. #2
    neuronbob's Avatar
    neuronbob is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    I wish I could give a dozen "likes" for that post.

  4. #3
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    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    Where is E63 wagon lover now? Oh, but the numbers are better for the Mercedes! It's why I'll always pick a manual trans car over an auto. The magic is still there. It just feels better, even if Neanderthals trumpet the auto being faster.


    Uh oh, did I just troll?


    -- We miss you, JD (Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood)


  5. #4
    RaVeNous is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    You troll ^^^^ but it's permitted!

    Even without AWD on the V3, and I seriously doubt it will be offered, the v3 could be the same kind of track monster and drivers car the v2 is and more, and again put the competition in check. There is no way to achieve the raw, crazy straight line performance of AMG AWD recent offerings, but the V3 could come close with a much better overall performing car. The real question is what kind if transmission option do they go for? DCT automatic, or manual, and what's it all going to cost.

  6. #5
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    I love where you're going with that; I really do. But it's an awfully small "own."

    What you really mean is own those customers who won't buy anything but a superwagon, who aren't loyal Mercedes customers, and who aren't loyal Audi customers in markets served by the Audi RS6 (or satisfied by the RS7), and who aren't out of the market for a few years because they just bought a superwagon or never buy new.

    I don't think direct conquest is a good enough reason to build a V3 wagon. And Cadillac certainly isn't wrong to say they tried a wagon and it didn't work. And a V3 wagon won't have the same novelty.

    But if V3 blows the market's hair back as well as or better than V2 did, a late-cycle wagon variant might still be worth doing for halo-polishing value.

    I suspect the wagon's future is predicated on there being enough of a market for non-V wagons in Europe, which probably depends on Cadillac having enough dealer support and a diesel option. I think the sedan has to go mainstream before the wagon niche will be big enough to bother.

    And I bet Cadillac would see more value from trying a new niche, where even if there's more competition there's more opportunity. The four-door faux-coupe market is definitely bigger, and plays to Cadillac's strength of distinctive styling.

    All that said: Cadillac, re-up your cool and build another CTS-V wagon.

  7. #6
    RaVeNous is offline Cadillac Owners Enthusiast
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    I was going through a similar thought last night on the way home from work, after seeing a late model infinity Q. I was thinking man why didn't infinity offer their V8 in a performance model G Coupe? Why no V8 in the Genesis Coupe?

    They just don't sell. The majority of buyers don't spend the upgrade for the performance models. As car people, it's hard to remove that from the brain when questioning offerings from manufacturers.

    Wagons don't sell in the US. They are the least popular car in any configuration. There is no motivation to offer performance wagons when you're going to sell 1000 of them.

  8. #7
    1997BlackETC's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    No, way, Cadillac will drop the Wagon in both V6 trims and V trim never to be seen again. The Benz E63 Amg wagon out handles and out performs the V hands down, is more fuel efficient more trouble free, much better build quality and better materials, it is a joy to drive and has a lot more features in both 2wd and awd forms.

  9. #8
    RobF300 is offline Cadillac Owners Fanatic
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    as a society we need to work our abs out more to deserve vehicles like this

    ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by 1997BlackETC View Post
    No, way, Cadillac will drop the Wagon in both V6 trims and V trim never to be seen again. The Benz E63 Amg wagon out handles and out performs the V hands down, is more fuel efficient more trouble free, much better build quality and better materials, it is a joy to drive and has a lot more features in both 2wd and awd forms.
    even you cant believe everything you just typed?
    trouble free, lol come on now
    blksnk likes this.

  10. #9
    V-Horse's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    The MB guy has no time he's prob too busy trying to figure out why he has to open up the glove box @ the same time he presses his fancy start button in order to start the car. MB dealership will tell him it's 'normal'. I was changing bulbs front and back weekly on my wife's new MB, this was 'normal'. It's also lots of fun when you're getting on the highway pressing the gas pedal 1/4 of the way and all of a sudden the RPM shoots up to 7,000 all by itself making you accelerate into the car in front of you, also a 'normal' occurrence and a non-electrical problem. Leave your MB in the rain overnight? No prob, just remember if you want to open your windows simply turn on the radio and if you want to close them just turn off the a/c, etc...

  11. #10
    Xaqtly's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    Quote Originally Posted by RaVeNous View Post
    Wagons don't sell in the US. They are the least popular car in any configuration. There is no motivation to offer performance wagons when you're going to sell 1000 of them.
    Granted, which is why I mentioned the part about selling them in other countries that do like performance wagons. The opportunity I was talking about seems to be presenting itself in the form of the E63 S wagon not being as great as it seems like it would be on paper. There's a hole in the market that Cadillac could easily fill if they wanted to.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1997BlackETC View Post
    No, way, Cadillac will drop the Wagon in both V6 trims and V trim never to be seen again. The Benz E63 Amg wagon out handles and out performs the V hands down, is more fuel efficient more trouble free, much better build quality and better materials, it is a joy to drive and has a lot more features in both 2wd and awd forms.
    If that's what you need to believe to convince yourself that you made the right choice, go ahead. But you're still wrong, go look at the head to head comparisons between the V wagon and the E63 wagon. Nobody who is grounded in reality thinks the E63 is a better performing car than the CTS-V, it's too soft, the steering is worse, the suspension is worse, and the simple fact is that you're biased which is why you should really stop trolling here.

  12. #11
    neuronbob's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    Quote Originally Posted by 1997BlackETC View Post
    No, way, Cadillac will drop the Wagon in both V6 trims and V trim never to be seen again. The Benz E63 Amg wagon out handles and out performs the V hands down, is more fuel efficient more trouble free, much better build quality and better materials, it is a joy to drive and has a lot more features in both 2wd and awd forms.
    OH SNAP! It's on! j/k
    .
    .
    .

    Seriously, though, I would like to try the E63 wagon, just to say I did. You are so lucky you've gotten to try it. I am not so much of a homer as to ignore what Mercedes has done.

    Even so, I am hoping that Cadillac will surprise us in 3-4 years with a new CTS-V wagon. If not.....I own an American classic and future collectible.

  13. #12
    DCV
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    A
    is more fuel efficient more trouble free
    ...ummm, most MB owners hate them once the electrical gremlins get set loose.....so they get dumped every two years. Look at the used car market, and see how many S and AMG MB's are listed for sale. As for the RS6...well the last version of it needed a timing belt at 35K miles.....which required a engine removal....same thing if the starter went bad......no thanks to that.

  14. #13
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    Quote Originally Posted by RaVeNous View Post
    I was going through a similar thought last night on the way home from work, after seeing a late model infinity Q. I was thinking man why didn't infinity offer their V8 in a performance model G Coupe? Why no V8 in the Genesis Coupe?

    They just don't sell. The majority of buyers don't spend the upgrade for the performance models.
    Simpler answer: Mustang GT, Camaro SS, and Corvette. Offering a V8 coupe is only slightly easier than offering a full-size pickup.

    Anyway, in the case of Infiniti, the V8 was great when it was new, but received no further development and eventually died of obsolescence, much like Northstar. And apparently the V8 wasn't an easy fit in the G anyway. And what Nissan fanboys really wanted was the Skyline uber-V6, which they eventually got...

    .Jinx

  15. #14
    1997BlackETC's Avatar
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    I apologize if my post sounded a little harsh. I did just read the article and was kind of shocked the reviewer did not like the AMG better. Makes me glad I got the last of the RWD ones and glad I did not spend an extra 30 grand for a new one. I do love this car, it does everything I want it to when I want it to. I put it in sport plus mode the other night and did a curvy safe road at higher speeds and the car stuck like glue and the sound of the AMG exhaust accelerating out of the corners was bliss. Mine seems to shift real quick with the paddles and I like the paddles a lot better than the buttons on the backside of steering wheel the CTS-V has. If this car holds up well, I'm a happy camper, that remains to be seen but I don't read about these crazy problems many speak of with these cars. I think everyone should try and test drive one before they speak about them, I know I've driven three, a 2012 V Sedan I had, then a 2013 V Wagon and now the 2012 Mercedes E63 AMG. I don't plan on any mods with my AMG other than Michelin Pilot Super Sport tires mainly to try and get this car to ride better over the bumps, it handles fine with the Conti's but they are a very stiff tire, the Michelins should be much smoother.

  16. #15
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    thebigjimsho is offline Cadillac Owners 10000+ Posts
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    The V is a bettler handler than the AMG. Peer e ud.


    -- We miss you, JD (Dirt_Cheap_Fleetwood)


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