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2009-2014 Cadillac CTS-V General Discussion Discussion, Cadillac has an opportunity here in Cadillac CTS-V Series Forum - 2009-2014; Originally Posted by 1997BlackETC That test was purely subjective especially at 8:18 as you point out. I've driven both cars ...
  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1997BlackETC View Post
    That test was purely subjective especially at 8:18 as you point out. I've driven both cars and infact that black Vagon they tested looked just my 2013, I like the steering feel of my AMG much better. I woulda loved to see a objective road track test with times in this review, but I guess at this point ain't gonna happen. I really think on a road track the E63 would post a better time than the V, it would blast out of the corners better as I said and along the straights go faster more than enough to make up for the little it lost directly in the turns themselves. I guess a lot of would depend on the type of road course it was, if it had long straights or if it was some tiny track like Bristol Motor speedway or Richmond or something. And, Ya I do know a lot about racing. I do believe the German engineers engineered this car the e63 amg twin turbo to beat the CTS-V lap times at Nurburgring, I just wish I could find the data to prove it.
    Bristol and Richmond are NASCAR short tracks. Nothing to do with road racing. You get all your info from watching TV and looking at 1/4 mile times. Again, you know nothing about handling. Nothing...

  2. #32
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    Quite the Contrary, the MB is really stiff even in controlled efficientcy mode and not Cushy at all. That is my main complaint with the car, I wish it were more Cushy, the V does ride much, much better. Even in C mode the Amg I have rides a lot rougher than my Cadillac even in Sport suspension mode, some of it is the run flat tires, I cant weight to go with Michelin SS tires on this car, it should help the ride as right now every little bump goes right through you. Ya, the V might look meaner, but I do like the performance of the AMG a lot better, it feels much more like a raw race car than the V even though it does not look the part. It really surprised me, I was not expecting it to drive like it does, it was just what I was looking for other than the rough ride over bumps.

  3. #33
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    It becomes stiff riding when the rear air suspension starts to go, take it to the dealer. I have the Michelin SS with a size up in (width) the front and back and it does ride a little more softer than the PS2's. They also have a more aggressive stance IMHO.

  4. #34
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    Quote Originally Posted by 1997BlackETC View Post
    I like the steering feel of my AMG much better.
    Why do you think your opinion matters? You're not a professional motor journalist, you're not a professional driver, you're not a professional anything. You are the opposite of objective because you're biased towards Mercedes. The point of that video was that it was an objective comparison because the reviewer has nothing invested in either car. He is not only more objective than you are, he's also far more experienced than you are. The steering and handling is better on the CTS-V, and that's been pointed out in MANY reviews, not just this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1997BlackETC View Post
    I really think on a road track the E63 would post a better time than the V, it would blast out of the corners better as I said and along the straights go faster more than enough to make up for the little it lost directly in the turns themselves. I guess a lot of would depend on the type of road course it was, if it had long straights or if it was some tiny track like Bristol Motor speedway or Richmond or something. And, Ya I do know a lot about racing.
    This is to point out exactly how wrong you are:

    http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

    CTS-V: #110. Cadillac CTS-V 7:59.32 top speed:155 '09

    E63 AMG w/PP: #148. Mercedes E63 AMG Performance Package 8:10.20 top speed:151 '11

    Everything you imagine to be true about the E63 being a better driver's car is only in your head. You are wrong about the steering, you are wrong about the handling, you are wrong about the performance, you are wrong about who would win on a track, you are wrong about it being dependent on the type of road course, and you are wrong about knowing a lot about racing.

  5. #35
    Jinx is offline Cadillac Owners Connoisseur
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    1997BlackETC: please stop trolling.

  6. #36
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    So, if I understand correctly, this thread has become a debate about who's station wagon performs better on a racetrack?

    Wait. What?

  7. #37
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    Quote Originally Posted by 6104696 View Post
    So, if I understand correctly, this thread has become a debate about who's station wagon performs better on a racetrack?

    Wait. What?
    an imaginary track, or road course

  8. #38
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaqtly View Post
    Why do you think your opinion matters? You're not a professional motor journalist, you're not a professional driver, you're not a professional anything. You are the opposite of objective because you're biased towards Mercedes. The point of that video was that it was an objective comparison because the reviewer has nothing invested in either car. He is not only more objective than you are, he's also far more experienced than you are. The steering and handling is better on the CTS-V, and that's been pointed out in MANY reviews, not just this one.



    This is to point out exactly how wrong you are:

    http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

    CTS-V: #110. Cadillac CTS-V 7:59.32 top speed:155 '09

    E63 AMG w/PP: #148. Mercedes E63 AMG Performance Package 8:10.20 top speed:151 '11

    Everything you imagine to be true about the E63 being a better driver's car is only in your head. You are wrong about the steering, you are wrong about the handling, you are wrong about the performance, you are wrong about who would win on a track, you are wrong about it being dependent on the type of road course, and you are wrong about knowing a lot about racing.
    Thank you so much for posting this, I was not able to find this, but it proves my point, my car definitely beat the CTS-V on a road course, I knew it, and I do know what I'm talking about. Check out line 93, that is my car. The E63 Amg you posted is a 2011 so it's not the Twin Turbo 5.5 motor but instead the normally aspirated 6.2 motor, which was a beast but nowhere near the beast the TT motor is which came out in 2012. Anyhow, my car beat the Cadillac CTS-V by 4 seconds, the 2013 E63 AMG was the same as my 2012 E63 Amg. I knew with all the power and torque this motor produces even if it did loose a little time in the corners it would still beat the CTS-V by a fairly wide margin and it did. I'll post this info over on the Mercedes forums. I am so glad I made the move away from the V, I got so tired of living at the repair shops, putting gas in the car and being dissatisfied with the way it drove.

  9. #39
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    The 2013 E63 sedan S is > than your slow 2012 wagon. You should sell it. Then buy a M3, and troll the Mercedes forums.

    Motor trend got the the P30 packaged 2012 wagon to beat the V by 1/10 in straight line tests with 518HP/516T. The 2012 / 2013 S bumps power to 550HP/590T. It doesn't really matter though you could chip your car for some healthy gains. A CTS-V owner could P mod their car and significantly improve the 7:59 ring time. You still should have bought a CLS. Does it bother you how much you'd be destroyed by a ZL1?

    You know whats really sad. Most of the people on this forum don't hate Mercedes, BMW, Audi, or any other manufacturer that make amazing cars. I love performance cars. I thought back and fourth in my head over a possible AMG during my last two car purchases. They are nice looking fairly well built cars. I would imagine most people even on this Cadillac forum would agree.

    You know what though, there are two main reasons I've never purchased one.
    First of all, they are extremely expensive to fix when they do break, and you are very limited on the number of available dealers to take the car during trouble. Parts have to be ordered, many times from Germany. Hell some of the parts for my SRT8 were based on AMG and had to come from Germany. The thought of owning a $100,000 car out of warranty, is just a scary thought for me, and on price alone, if I was looking to buy a car in the $80-90,000 range, if I could afford to, it would not be a Mercedes sedan....and even used, after they have taken a big dive in price like all higher priced luxury vehicles, they are still expensive. I might be able to swing a slightly used late model AMG, but it would have to be near out of warranty to be within what I'd allow myself to spend. The 2012 on up E63 CLS63 cars are fast, and big step up from the previous models. The cars also cost 10-15k more. Mods are expensive, everything is a premium - that just goes with the territory. You have to make the personal decision if its really worth it to you or not.

    Secondly, and I think 1997BlackETC, you, are a shining example, I don't fit in with the Mercedes crowd. I don't believe that having Bovarian DNA under the hood automatically makes for a better automobile. What it typically means is a really rude, stuck up owner who feels it necessary to point out how much better their car is than everyone else. This is part of the reason Mercedes, BMW etc are well established as a status symbol. Of course there are clueless fan boy forum members for every platform, pony car, musclecar, manufacturer, that can act much the same way. I have my moments. There is clearly; however, a whole other ego elevated mentality to AMG, M, RS series owners that just rubs me the wrong way. What I love about the V, about my V, is back in 2009 Cadillac took a giant step forward in the automotive world, and put everyone in check. That wasn't that long ago, and think how many bad ass, beast cars have come out since that famous Nurburgring run. We have the Panamera's, the refreshed M's, the refreshed Audi S, and RS, and the recent 4Matic AMG's that are crazy fast. Would that have happened otherwise? Even Audi, until post V, with their $80,000 cars, really weren't that impressive. Now you have the S6 running sub 4 second 0-60! Who knows.

    What I know is the V2 has a solid icon status, that an AMG Sedan, that looks like every other Benz sedan, just won't ever have. This is partly true because they have a classic style, history and status that has just always been there, but there is really nothing unique about it. AMG has a certain status of its own, but outside of the Benz fanboy, no one really pays attention to it.

    The V is the underdog. It has looks unlike any other car on the road. The V2 put GM on the map as a contender in a market it was never previously a part of. Even now with these improved German offerings, with a 6-7 year old platform and tech package, the V2 is still right there on paper and on the track with performance numbers not far behind cars that cost double. $100,000 super cars are still compared to it. Add to that the fact that you have a sold platform for cost effective mods, and good reliability at power numbers far above factory levels. I'm not going to say the V2 is the be all end all, because I like the idea of getting into an AWD super sedan of some sort, some day, but for the reasons I've already mentioned, I don't see it happening any time soon. Maybe never. There is nothing on the road that can touch a used low mileage V2 for $40,000-$45,000 in my opinion. Not on paper, not how the steering feels, not how the braking performs, not with magnetic ride control. 1997BlackETC obviously doesn't agree, thats cool, so why bother us?

  10. #40
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    Quote Originally Posted by 1997BlackETC View Post
    my car definitely beat the CTS-V on a road course, I knew it, and I do know what I'm talking about. Check out line 93, that is my car.





    No. Line 93 is for the NEW E63 S with AWD. You don't own that model, you own the one BEFORE that. It says it's an E63 S, didn't that tip you off? There was no E63 S before the current AWD model. In fact the S is how you know it's AWD. So once again, no your E63 can't beat a CTS-V on a road course, and no you don't know what you're talking about. You would think for somebody with their head this far up Mercedes' ass you would know the difference between an E63 and an E63 S. All you had to do was click the link in line 93 that would have taken you to the page where it describes the specs in detail, including the fact that it has AWD.

    All you're actually doing is proving that you really don't have any idea what you're talking about. But do go ahead and post it on the Mercedes forums, hopefully they'll spot the same thing and point it out to you.

  11. #41
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    The one you posted is definitely not the Twin Turbo Model, it's a 2011 they did not come out with the TT until 2012, somebody said under the comments please correct this mistake if you look at the car you posted. So the real answer is the 2wd Twin turbo model (2012 and 2013) is not listed. What threw me off was the AWD model should be listed as a 2014 model, the 2013 at least here in the States was definitely just like my 2012. The reality is it would be a really close race. At any rate while the benz is great and no regrets getting it, I am getting Vette fever for a 2014 and may get one of these for some road course racing, that would be fun. Looks like GM did a great job with this car.
    Attached Images

  12. #42
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    Re: Cadillac has an opportunity here

    Well Written post. Ya, I was really disappointed the V did not work for me but glad it does work for others. The Benz does work for me, the seating position I like a lot better, find it more comfortable and many other reasons. Still over 2 years left on the factory warranty so I'm not too worried at this point and no signs of any problems as of yet, although only 16K on the car now. I did like the looks of my Vagon, I think I've got around 200 pics of it, washed it everyday and took good care of the car. The Benz does really meet my needs well, but I would not mind getting a super sporty car that was more agile at some point and that's why I posted the picture of the Vette. I think GM has done a great job with it and as soon as I can take one for a test drive I will do that.
    Quote Originally Posted by RaVeNous View Post
    The 2013 E63 sedan S is > than your slow 2012 wagon. You should sell it. Then buy a M3, and troll the Mercedes forums.

    Motor trend got the the P30 packaged 2012 wagon to beat the V by 1/10 in straight line tests with 518HP/516T. The 2012 / 2013 S bumps power to 550HP/590T. It doesn't really matter though you could chip your car for some healthy gains. A CTS-V owner could P mod their car and significantly improve the 7:59 ring time. You still should have bought a CLS. Does it bother you how much you'd be destroyed by a ZL1?

    You know whats really sad. Most of the people on this forum don't hate Mercedes, BMW, Audi, or any other manufacturer that make amazing cars. I love performance cars. I thought back and fourth in my head over a possible AMG during my last two car purchases. They are nice looking fairly well built cars. I would imagine most people even on this Cadillac forum would agree.

    You know what though, there are two main reasons I've never purchased one.
    First of all, they are extremely expensive to fix when they do break, and you are very limited on the number of available dealers to take the car during trouble. Parts have to be ordered, many times from Germany. Hell some of the parts for my SRT8 were based on AMG and had to come from Germany. The thought of owning a $100,000 car out of warranty, is just a scary thought for me, and on price alone, if I was looking to buy a car in the $80-90,000 range, if I could afford to, it would not be a Mercedes sedan....and even used, after they have taken a big dive in price like all higher priced luxury vehicles, they are still expensive. I might be able to swing a slightly used late model AMG, but it would have to be near out of warranty to be within what I'd allow myself to spend. The 2012 on up E63 CLS63 cars are fast, and big step up from the previous models. The cars also cost 10-15k more. Mods are expensive, everything is a premium - that just goes with the territory. You have to make the personal decision if its really worth it to you or not.

    Secondly, and I think 1997BlackETC, you, are a shining example, I don't fit in with the Mercedes crowd. I don't believe that having Bovarian DNA under the hood automatically makes for a better automobile. What it typically means is a really rude, stuck up owner who feels it necessary to point out how much better their car is than everyone else. This is part of the reason Mercedes, BMW etc are well established as a status symbol. Of course there are clueless fan boy forum members for every platform, pony car, musclecar, manufacturer, that can act much the same way. I have my moments. There is clearly; however, a whole other ego elevated mentality to AMG, M, RS series owners that just rubs me the wrong way. What I love about the V, about my V, is back in 2009 Cadillac took a giant step forward in the automotive world, and put everyone in check. That wasn't that long ago, and think how many bad ass, beast cars have come out since that famous Nurburgring run. We have the Panamera's, the refreshed M's, the refreshed Audi S, and RS, and the recent 4Matic AMG's that are crazy fast. Would that have happened otherwise? Even Audi, until post V, with their $80,000 cars, really weren't that impressive. Now you have the S6 running sub 4 second 0-60! Who knows.

    What I know is the V2 has a solid icon status, that an AMG Sedan, that looks like every other Benz sedan, just won't ever have. This is partly true because they have a classic style, history and status that has just always been there, but there is really nothing unique about it. AMG has a certain status of its own, but outside of the Benz fanboy, no one really pays attention to it.

    The V is the underdog. It has looks unlike any other car on the road. The V2 put GM on the map as a contender in a market it was never previously a part of. Even now with these improved German offerings, with a 6-7 year old platform and tech package, the V2 is still right there on paper and on the track with performance numbers not far behind cars that cost double. $100,000 super cars are still compared to it. Add to that the fact that you have a sold platform for cost effective mods, and good reliability at power numbers far above factory levels. I'm not going to say the V2 is the be all end all, because I like the idea of getting into an AWD super sedan of some sort, some day, but for the reasons I've already mentioned, I don't see it happening any time soon. Maybe never. There is nothing on the road that can touch a used low mileage V2 for $40,000-$45,000 in my opinion. Not on paper, not how the steering feels, not how the braking performs, not with magnetic ride control. 1997BlackETC obviously doesn't agree, thats cool, so why bother us?

  13. #43
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    Great. Now let's lock this down...
    V-Horse likes this.

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